FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[Silverquick]

What was the last Extreme/Savage that you've done? There are places in Hades Extreme where this could be the case, but in that case it falls on the player to know that such a thing is coming and to adjust their rotation accordingly. The rotation still exists, both the players' and the boss', it's still the basis for doing damage as a damage dealer, healing damage as a healer, and mitigating damage as a tank. [B]Your claim is coming across as if rotations are never feasible when that's not true in the slightest.

Ahh but at least now you're getting it.
If you don't stay flexible, you will lose DPS... not gain it by sticking to a set in stone "rotation".

It is not possible to stick to any set in stone rotation because your rotation is dictated by the flow of combat... not a set in stone on paper rotation.

But the mechanic will always occur at the same time every fight. Okay so tether is coming out, you know when it's coming out, you plan ahead for what you'll do if you're tethered. Base rotation, again, still exists. It's not some unfeasible, impossible thing just because mechanics can happen to you. Most fights in this game, actually, you can execute your entire rotation on without a single interruption. Also, I know no boss that gazes randomly. Name me one that gazes randomly.

That also is not true... a boss mob can have a random choice of which of its attacks to use. It could be a tank buster, it could be a gaze attack it could be something else. Either way all of those will disrupt your timing which in turn causes you to alter your rotation to something else.

If you get tethered your rotation is screwed depending on the type of tether. If its the one where you have to turn around to stop the thing tethered to you from following you or burn the add attached to you, you're going to have to totally change up what you were going to do next, you can't face the boss mob anymore and now you have to burn down the thing attached to you. If its the type of tether where you have to run in the opposite direction of the person your tethered to to break it... you're not going to be able to complete what it is you were trying to do. If its the positive/negative, or positive positive tether, your rotation is going to be disrupted when you get sent flying in one direction or the other.

There are tons of different variables of what can hit you and when, and all of which will force your rotation to change.

[HyoMinPark]

That also is not true... a boss mob can have a random choice of which of its attacks to use. It could be a tank buster, it could be a gaze attack it could be something else. Either way all of those will disrupt your timing which in turn causes you to alter your rotation to something else.

Please name a boss that randomizes its attacks in this fashion.

If you get tethered your rotation is screwed depending on the type of tether. If its the one where you have to turn around to stop the thing tethered to you from following you or burn the add attached to you, you're going to have to totally change up what you were going to do next, you can't face the boss mob anymore and now you have to burn down the thing attached to you. If its the type of tether where you have to run in the opposite direction of the person your tethered to to break it... you're not going to be able to complete what it is you were trying to do. If its the positive/negative, or positive positive tether, your rotation is going to be disrupted when you get sent flying in one direction or the other.

+/- tethers may interrupt your rotation, but it doesn’t change the rotation. If you have to disengage for a -/- or +/+ repelling tether, you simply lose GCDs. You don’t suddenly alter what you’re doing.

[Silverquick]

+/- tethers may interrupt your rotation, but it doesn’t change the rotation. If you have to disengage for a -/- or +/+ repelling tether, you simply lose GCDs. You don’t suddenly alter what you’re doing.

Well if you lose a GCD its going to change your rotation isn't it?

[HyoMinPark]

Well if you lose a GCD its going to change your rotation isn't it?

No, it won’t. Combos last for up to 15 seconds now before they break. If, for example, a DRG has to disengage for a GCD after using Disembowel, their next skill when they re-engage will still be Chaos Thrust. You won’t deviate from that. Ever.

I’m still waiting for you to name a boss that may do a tankbuster or may do a gaze attack instead.

[Silverquick]

No, it won’t. Combos last for up to 15 seconds now before they break. If, for example, a DRG has to disengage for a GCD after using Disembowel, their next skill when they re-engage will still be Chaos Thrust. You won’t deviate from that. Ever.

I’m still waiting for you to name a boss that may do a tankbuster or may do a gaze attack instead.

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

I thought you were being facetious when you kept asking me about naming a boss... but you're actually serious aren't you?

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

[HyoMinPark]

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

What GCD would you be blowing?

I thought you were being facetious when you kept asking me about naming a boss... but you're actually serious aren't you?

When I ask questions, I tend to expect answers. The question wasn’t rhetorical.

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

So you’re quoting one boss that either does single or double beam? The attack my be random (barely), but the time stamp for it is still relatively the same so you will always know when it’s happening. And you will always be prepared for it because its position in a fight doesn’t change.

Your argument has been that bosses aren’t scripted. But there are multitudes of evidence to the contrary. So why are you even saying they aren’t scripted when you can literally Google Search “[Boss] Timeline” and get graphics with time stamps posted on it.

[Silverquick]

So you’re quoting one boss that either does single or double beam? The attack my be random (barely), but the time stamp for it is still relatively the same so you will always know when it’s happening. And you will always be prepared for it because its position in a fight doesn’t change.

Oh my god really?
You're seriously going to get that petty? Are you just looking for something to argue about?

[SaberMaxwell]

That's DRG, but take Summoner for example, if you had to blow a GCD on something it may not be ready anymore for your standard rotation so you'll have to skip it or do something in a different order than intended.

Do you understand how Summoner works? Casters don't even have combos and yes, losing a cast is bad, but you also hilariously picked one of the best mobile casters as your example, the Summoner who has instant casts for almost every situation?

In either case, you note down when the mechanic that interrupted you happened. You plan for it so the next time around you sacrifice as little as possible (read: in most cases, nothing) to simultaneously complete the mechanic and not lose a cast. That's how casters tend to optimize, all three of them (six, counting healers).

If you are actually asking about Bosses randomizing their attacks, hell just Brawler in Alex is a good example. The one where he holds up his arms depending on the attack he's going to do. Its never the same one twice but its always random. There's a TON of them. Why are you even asking that?

The timestamp of him performing the mechanic, however, is the same. You know that Mechanic X, Y, or Z is coming, and you have your plans for how to deal with them in your head. The party is generally going to be in a place where they can easily get in position for double beam and bait for double drill. Melees all have gap closers for the eventuality of single drill. Mechanic is called, people react, and in interacting with the mechanic they maintain their rotation to the best of their ability.

Their ability to maintain said rotation generally results in a much better damage per second amount, as well. Yes, flexibility is good, that's not in question: your line in the sand that fights aren't scripted to a hilariously exact degree, however, is not a strong position to hold considering how this game is played.

[Silverquick]

Do you understand how Summoner works? Casters don't even have combos and yes, losing a cast is bad, but you also hilariously picked one of the best mobile casters as your example, the Summoner who has instant casts for almost every situation?
.

Obviously I do.
And where in the hell did you get the idea I was talking about "combos"? I do not recall ever bring up Casters doing "combos". I do believe it was about "rotation" and having to change your rotation... and directly stated so.

And I do believe we were talking about losing a GCD and it changing your pre-planned rotation... not "The Summoner isn't mobile".

Im not sure why youre calling this petty, youre making outlandish claims about boss design which are being shown not to be true. As for your smn example earlier, these are all things you can adjust your rotation around ie saving a ruin 4 or egi assault, minor adjustment and youre still doing a rotation. To go back even further to your hw dwt example, yes it was bad to cut your dwt short for deathflare, not just because of the 10% up from dwt, but the 10% up from contagion, and also raging strikes every 3 mins, and if you know when the boss is going away then you could very comfortably get in all the ruin 3s under all these buffs, far better than early deathflare just in case it randomly jumps (which bosses dont do)

What "outlandish" claims are you talking about?
I stated boss mobs will randomly use techniques, and gave an example and the response I got was "but but but that doesn't count and stuff"
Either way none of it has anything do with what I said.

As for your smn example earlier, these are all things you can adjust your rotation around ie saving a ruin 4 or egi assault, minor adjustment and youre still doing a rotation. To go back even further to your hw dwt example, yes it was bad to cut your dwt short for deathflare, not just because of the 10% up from dwt, but the 10% up from contagion, and also raging strikes every 3 mins, and if you know when the boss is going away then you could very comfortably get in all the ruin 3s under all these buffs, far better than early deathflare just in case it randomly jumps (which bosses dont do)

I also did not say that... I said this...
"No they actually won't (be consistent/predictable), because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant, either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not."

... and this...
"See that's where we disagree,
Especially when you get to dungeons or raids with a lot of movement, adds, transition phases, and a lot of AoEs going off.
If you don't stay flexible, you will lose DPS... not gain it by sticking to a set in stone "rotation"."

[ForteNightshade]

Well if you lose a GCD its going to change your rotation isn't it?

You won't lose a GCD. Currently, Living Liquid is the longest I've had to disengage as a melee main this entire tier and I still can keep my combo rolling. In fact, the primary complaint Dragoons have with Piercing Talon is how it's rendered completely worthless because you'll never be in a situation where you'll disengage long enough to lose your combo.