Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Maeka]

you and callinon need stop harassing and bully this girl lol. you and him so mad about hardcore crafter opinions..there is not anything wrong with what she says because she is true. i am in crafting dis cord. sometimes they say in japan that what cookies is doing in English forum is a good thing. because of how easy it became and i a gree.

Cookies if you reading this now then keep doing what your doing. actually hardcore player watch your thread and support youre thread. this is the only thread across all language that call out easy crafting and we take notice of your good deed. ignore players that try bring you down. we still support your thread and love what your doing for hardcore community. your kind of like hero lol I sent you tell on Jenova from my aether alt, you should come to my jap server and craft

people on english forum act like such cry baby over hardcore things it is really sad.

If you actually read what I posted, you would realize that I said that I am fine with hardcore niche crafting things. I'm fine with that. I am not fine, however, with the girl taking such an elitist attitude with people and waving their epeen around like they're something special because they dump 40+ hours a week into the game like it's a freaking job.

They call us hostile while instantly going on the offensive when they get triggered because we don't agree with them, even when we present our differing opinions politely.

It's OK to disagree.
It's NOT okay to attack someone who disagrees with you and THEN claim that THEY got hostile.

[MilkAndChoco]

If you actually read what I posted, you would realize that I said that I am fine with hardcore niche crafting things. I'm fine with that. I am not fine, however, with the girl taking such an elitist attitude with people and waving their epeen around like they're something special because they dump 40+ hours a week into the game like it's a freaking job.

They call us hostile while instantly going on the offensive when they get triggered because we don't agree with them, even when we present our differing opinions politely.

It's OK to disagree.
It's NOT okay to attack someone who disagrees with you and THEN claim that THEY got hostile.

I read all the post here to this thread. it seems like when cookies mention how much she makes month at a time and how hardcore she is at game...you and callinon seem to be one that got triggered and call her elitist lol

your statement irk me. why? because. an elitist player kick you from lobby because you did one singl rotation incorrect. an elitist player also make fun of you during raid caus you forgot a mechanic during fight. elitist player doesnt bother help you. cookie say she have over 20 bil of Gil. she mention she pay large plot of housing ward to poor player. i never known any hardcore that do this ever. she is very kind

from what i see the ones who get hostile first are you and callinon. then start witch hunt at cookies. very discriminatory of hardcore player. sides. stop discriminatory hardcore people stop treating them as demon because they have fun in game. who care if that what cookies do for fun? you suppose to have fun in video game not be bored of it...what is wrong with you? if how she play game offend you and make you call her bad elitist player then stop playing game.

last time i reply on this subject. subject is childish and a bunch of bullies witch hunt one girl over her telling truth. grow thickk skin people. cookies, please ignore children here they are not worth your time. your known as hero for making very hard crafting reality, god bless people as you

by the way rng make craft hard, very sad how english forum think it not hard lol

[Callinon]

by the way rng make craft hard, very sad how english forum think it not hard lol

Listen. I respect that you're trying to converse in a language not your own. No kidding, I admire the hell out of that kind of effort. But I don't think you completely understood what was being discussed here by Maeka, myself, or what Ryaz said just above.

Crafting is easy. It is. I'm not going to stand here and say that it isn't. But adding difficulty and adding randomness are not the same thing.

Adding random elements that are pivotal to the success or failure of a craft is not adding difficulty to crafting, it's just adding tedium. Basically it's saying that if you prepare yourself, get all your stats together, put all your ducks squarely in a row, and do everything right... you might still just fail because.... difficulty? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no objection to the principle of adding more complications to crafting. But the system as it is currently designed is just a math problem. You just do math. Your answer is either correct or incorrect. There is nothing in between and there is no room in there for adding difficulty.

If SE decides they want to redesign the system so that it isn't just a math problem, that's their choice. Several other MMOs have done something similar with mixed results. But just adding a random chance to fail isn't the same thing and we should be intellectually honest about that.

Difficulty != Luck.

As for Ishgard adding this kind of thing? I doubt it very sincerely. I know we don't have a ton of information on Ishgard restoration crafting yet, but Yoshi P has already said he wants the entire server to cooperate here. That tells me it will be an inclusive system not an exclusive one (like say, Ultimate).

[NanaWiloh]

Listen. I respect that you're trying to converse in a language not your own. No kidding, I admire the hell out of that kind of effort. But I don't think you completely understood what was being discussed here by Maeka, myself, or what Ryaz said just above.

Crafting is easy. It is. I'm not going to stand here and say that it isn't. But adding difficulty and adding randomness are not the same thing.

Adding random elements that are pivotal to the success or failure of a craft is not adding difficulty to crafting, it's just adding tedium. Basically it's saying that if you prepare yourself, get all your stats together, put all your ducks squarely in a row, and do everything right... you might still just fail because.... difficulty? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no objection to the principle of adding more complications to crafting. But the system as it is currently designed is just a math problem. You just do math. Your answer is either correct or incorrect. There is nothing in between and there is no room in there for adding difficulty.

If SE decides they want to redesign the system so that it isn't just a math problem, that's their choice. Several other MMOs have done something similar with mixed results. But just adding a random chance to fail isn't the same thing and we should be intellectually honest about that.

Difficulty != Luck.

As for Ishgard adding this kind of thing? I doubt it very sincerely. I know we don't have a ton of information on Ishgard restoration crafting yet, but Yoshi P has already said he wants the entire server to cooperate here. That tells me it will be an inclusive system not an exclusive one (like say, Ultimate).

FF9 Ozma = difficulty based on rng

FF12 5 judges trail = difficulty based on knowledge

The latter is what crafting difficulty should be.

[CookiesNCreams]

Listen. I respect that you're trying to converse in a language not your own. No kidding, I admire the hell out of that kind of effort. But I don't think you completely understood what was being discussed here by Maeka, myself, or what Ryaz said just above.

Crafting is easy. It is. I'm not going to stand here and say that it isn't. But adding difficulty and adding randomness are not the same thing.

Adding random elements that are pivotal to the success or failure of a craft is not adding difficulty to crafting, it's just adding tedium. Basically it's saying that if you prepare yourself, get all your stats together, put all your ducks squarely in a row, and do everything right... you might still just fail because.... difficulty? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no objection to the principle of adding more complications to crafting. But the system as it is currently designed is just a math problem. You just do math. Your answer is either correct or incorrect. There is nothing in between and there is no room in there for adding difficulty.

If SE decides they want to redesign the system so that it isn't just a math problem, that's their choice. Several other MMOs have done something similar with mixed results. But just adding a random chance to fail isn't the same thing and we should be intellectually honest about that.

Difficulty != Luck.

As for Ishgard adding this kind of thing? I doubt it very sincerely. I know we don't have a ton of information on Ishgard restoration crafting yet, but Yoshi P has already said he wants the entire server to cooperate here. That tells me it will be an inclusive system not an exclusive one (like say, Ultimate).

See, when statements like that are made, I do not mind taking people off the ignore list. I do apologize for what I said, but it’s admittedly dry frustrating when you’re trying to make a point and people repeatedly ignore what you’re trying to say.

For the most part, I agree with what you’re saying. But all I want, is for hardcore or competitive players to get some content.

[Ryaz]

See, when statements like that are made, I do not mind taking people off the ignore list. I do apologize for what I said, but it’s admittedly dry frustrating when you’re trying to make a point and people repeatedly ignore what you’re trying to say.

For the most part, I agree with what you’re saying. But all I want, is for hardcore or competitive players to get some content.

No one is really arguing against harder, competitive crafting content. We're just arguing that RNG based crafting doesn't make something competitive or difficult. You can have someone who fails 10 times because of forces outside his control and have someone who succeeds first time because an algorithm decided to work for him. To me, that's not competitive.

The system needs an overhaul if you want a real, fair competitive crafting endgame.

[Maeka]

I read all the post here to this thread. it seems like when cookies mention how much she makes month at a time and how hardcore she is at game...you and callinon seem to be one that got triggered and call her elitist lol

That's because she did so in a way that she was looking down her nose like the fact she treated FFXIV like a second job made her opinion more important than anybody else's and she took this "I'M BETTER THAN YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT!" attitude.

I was fine until she did that.

If someone is a savage raider, hey fine. If a savage raider looks at me like my $14.95 is worth less than theirs, then they can go stuff it.