FF 5.X Alternative Raid Buff Alignment and Openers

[SaberMaxwell]

You're right in general, but fights in XIV are scripted enough you can set rotations in stone safely.

[Silverquick]

You're right in general, but fights in XIV are scripted enough you can set rotations in stone safely.

See that's where we disagree,
Especially when you get to dungeons or raids with a lot of movement, adds, transition phases, and a lot of AoEs going off.

If you don't stay flexible, you will lose DPS... not gain it by sticking to a set in stone "rotation".

[SaberMaxwell]

See that's where we disagree,
Especially when you get to dungeons or raids with a lot of movement, adds, transition phases, and a lot of AoEs going off.

If you don't stay flexible, you will lose DPS... not gain it by sticking to a set in stone "rotation".

It's not really a thing to disagree on. Every fight in this game is scripted down to the letter, including Ultimate. Trash pulls are variable because of the tank, but beyond that? The boss will always buster at the same time, mechanics will always happen at the same time, and heals will always be needed in the same places barring avoidable damage being taken.

[Silverquick]

It's not really a thing to disagree on. Every fight in this game is scripted down to the letter, including Ultimate. Trash pulls are variable because of the tank, but beyond that? The boss will always buster at the same time, mechanics will always happen at the same time, and heals will always be needed in the same places barring avoidable damage being taken.

No they actually won't, because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not.

AoEs are random or are on the person dealing the most damage, or on specifically defined targets which may be YOU. And if you get targeted or it lands in your area its going to hose up your rotation, so you better be able to adapt to that.

Mechanics may or may not pick you, so you could be the guy who got tethered which will hose up your rotation and force you to do something else. You could be RIGHT in the middle of your Trance and suddenly the Boss Mob starts his gaze attack out of a random choice so you have to turn around and again hoses up that perfect rotation you had going.

It is not, and never has been "constant" like you're claiming.

[SaberMaxwell]

No they actually won't, because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not.

What was the last Extreme/Savage that you've done? There are places in Hades Extreme where this could be the case, but in that case it falls on the player to know that such a thing is coming and to adjust their rotation accordingly. The rotation still exists, both the players' and the boss', it's still the basis for doing damage as a damage dealer, healing damage as a healer, and mitigating damage as a tank. Your claim is coming across as if rotations are never feasible when that's not true in the slightest.

AoEs are random or are on the person dealing the most damage, or on specifically defined targets which may be YOU. And if you get targeted or it lands in your area its going to hose up your rotation, so you better be able to adapt to that.

Not always, in fact most AoEs are actually quite predictably targeted. Living Liquid Ultimate for instance, you know who will get targeted by what AoE for every minute of the fight. Brute Justice Ultimate is similar, you know within reason who is going to get targeted with what, and how to pass it off throughout the encounter. Your rotation does need to be planned around what is going on, but again, the base rotation does exist and everything is just an adaption off of it.

Mechanics may or may not pick you, so you could be the guy who got tethered which will hose up your rotation and force you to do something else. You could be RIGHT in the middle of your Trance and suddenly the Boss Mob starts his gaze attack out of a random choice so you have to turn around and again hoses up that perfect rotation you had going.

But the mechanic will always occur at the same time every fight. Okay so tether is coming out, you know when it's coming out, you plan ahead for what you'll do if you're tethered. Base rotation, again, still exists. It's not some unfeasible, impossible thing just because mechanics can happen to you. Most fights in this game, actually, you can execute your entire rotation on without a single interruption. Also, I know no boss that gazes randomly. Name me one that gazes randomly.

It is not, and never has been "constant" like you're claiming.

You've been playing this game since at least Heavensward, and you're blind to how scripted fights are? Really?

[HyoMinPark]

No they actually won't, because damage is not constant, so the Boss mob getting to that transition phase is not constant either with your timing nor your CDs. It COULD turn out that way... but it also might not.

Um. Bosses now are always scripted, so what are you talking about?

Tankbusters are always at X time stamp.
Heals are always needed at Y time stamp.
AOEs are always at Z time stamp.

This has been the case since HW where people could no longer push/phase bosses early (e.g., Cruise Chaser in A11S, Zurvan EX).

There may be niche instances where you make rotational changes (e.g., DNCs in Phase 1 of TEA AOE Living Liquid and Living Hand because it’s more damage over single-target), but these are highly niche and highly fight specific. Things like your base rotation rarely deviate in most content. And openers—which is what this thread is about—do not deviate on a fight-by-fight basis. They are always the same.

[Mansion]

snip

I think you just have a confusion on the meaning of a rotation. That's just a general flow for a job, in broad terms. Having to cut bits here and there is not changing your rotation, it's just adapting to the fight. And hard work on these changes according to each individual fight is optimization. But rotation is always the same.

For instance it's difficult to keep the flow of Summoner in dungeons because you might desynchronize your Tri-Desaster timing and Trances timings in the time between packs. But it does not change your rotation, which is always keep DoTs up, don't delay Energy Drains and Trances, Ruin / Egi assault in between.
That's the same in EXT primals where sometimes you have a long ultimate animation. You'll re-adapt your stuff.

[Leidiriv]

So, uh... what fights exactly are random beyond a singular attack being swapped out now and then (E2S with the standalone Slicers/Guillotines) or the phase's order changing up (E4S with car first/fist first, E2S with first Quietus either being Retribution first or Chaos first)? Since I can pretty much guarantee exactly where I'll be in my rotation at any given point in a fight. Nothing ever changes so much that you won't have an exceptionally good idea of what you're doing at any given moment even just based off where the boss is in their mechanics dance.

[Oxdarock]

Well, the direction this conversation took has certainly been interesting. But, back to the main topic at hand. For those who saw my recent challenge on the tank version of this thread, I said how I'd be pointing out issues with the NIN opener first. Well, I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that I've finally pieced together all of the goals of the Early TA opener (a.k.a, the current Balance opener). There are some tweaks that can be made to make it even better, but it finally makes sense to me. Would definitely help if there was more explanation to go with it on the NIN guide, but I guess I'll take the time to explain it later, if only for self reaffirmation.

The bad news? When the same logic is applied to the delayed TA opener, it ends up making it even stronger for personal NIN dps, along with the increase to raid dps I've been advocating. I'll be sure to address all of this down the road, but I just thought I'd give people a heads up. Look forward to it!

[SiriusSaltstice]

Well, the direction this conversation took has certainly been interesting. But, back to the main topic at hand. For those who saw my recent challenge on the tank version of this thread, I said how I'd be pointing out issues with the NIN opener first. Well, I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that I've finally pieced together all of the goals of the Early TA opener (a.k.a, the current Balance opener). There are some tweaks that can be made to make it even better, but it finally makes sense to me. Would definitely help if there was more explanation to go with it on the NIN guide, but I guess I'll take the time to explain it later, if only for self reaffirmation.

The bad news? When the same logic is applied to the delayed TA opener, it ends up making it even stronger for personal NIN dps, along with the increase to raid dps I've been advocating. I'll be sure to address all of this down the road, but I just thought I'd give people a heads up. Look forward to it!

Are you real