Now before you overreact

[Saefinn]

You better watch out, saying something like that is effectively a crime nowadays.

Not really. Their opinion was fine and they didn't take the stance that it means people shouldn't have it. People don't have to like the glamour options, they may take the stance it doesn't work or how a piece of gear is designed with certain features in mind based on people's shape. If you're arguing it is a reason for people who want it to not have it, then that's the problem. I don't agree with the idea of people policing other people's fashion sense, their sense of style or what they like or find aesthetically pleasing or what amuses them and so on, especially when it's so arbitrary and subjective.

The dev team adds all sorts of gear that some find aesthetically pleasing, but others do not, some arguably look hideous for a variety of reasons, but that's never mattered when they've done it because variety is expected and people's tastes and what people like will vary. What I find looks hideous, the next might not. Heck people wear stuff that's not designed with their shape in mind, but we don't police them on that either.

So I don't really get the argument that gear should be restricted when people want certain items on their character who's of an opposite gender to what they're locked to. Although people seem to be obsessing over the idea of men in skimpy outfits and maid outfits. But there's gear I can't wear on my female characters that I would glamour, like the Expeditioner's Coat.

The only reasonable argument against it I've seen thus far has been about developer resource and whether it is worth them spending extra resource they could have spent elsewhere. I feel only SE can give the true insight there on what resource it costs and how it's managed. And the same argument could be applied to a plethora of glamour options, but I've yet to see the argument made in those contexts.

[Melichoir]

snip snap.

I think they were more pointing the the fact that I was saying that males and females are different and have different body builds on average. Even if my stance is "You do you and there shouldnt be limitations," there are some vocal people (on the interwebs broadly) who become...less than happy campers, when the insinuation is that there are differences between the sexes and those differences can affect things - such as clothing design.

[xxvaynxx]

I think it's a good thing to do this,some people my find this a waste but its really not.
This gives people more opportunities to Express themselves, sure some people might use it as a joke but some people will genuinely use this to Express themselves how they want in-game where they can't irl.

Now the only thing I'm worried about is they might make gender neutral outfits more often now.

[rachcouture]

Do you have a link to where it was "officially stated" that the rest of the headgear is coming, and only absent due to time constraints?

Hair was mentioned all the way back in August: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5126637

Helmets were mentioned far before Shadowbringers was released. It's the entire reason why various team members took it upon themselves to convert a huge chunk of items when possible, aside from being called out on Viera not being unique whatsoever.

I think Viera being a female only race with its defining characteristics being a large bust and butt in a thong is a joke but they spent a lot of resources on that too.

I've wanted Viera in this game for a very long time because of their runway model builds and matriarchal society. Their rear end or optionally large bust (something other races already have) had nothing to do with it.

Look, if people want stuff to be worn by both sexes, that should be fine, and frankly all the outfits should be wearable more or less by either sex. That being said, I personally find it silly to see male characters running around in 2B's gear, simply because it looks pretty awful. I dont think people fully understand that some clothing articles are designed to accentuate certain features on females or males, so sticking it on the opposite sex doesnt work out to well because, you know, males and females are not 1:1 copies of one another and have some differences in their morphology.

While this doesn't so much apply to FFXIV as most male PC models are sexualized, in real life, there do happen to be men with a feminine figure, and women with a masculine figure. It's not that black and white.

[Jybril]

You better watch out, saying something like that is effectively a crime nowadays.

Any and everything around these here parts is a crime.
Peoples feelings are legitimately hurt over more options.
My wee brain just has the hardest time comprehending it.

People just need to be patient. I can agree on the old and new races need love
all around the scope here. IE. More tails, different horns, or something? Eye shapes? Faces?
I dunno. It's bare bones and a tattoo and sticker add on doesn't really woo me and of course the new races and their issues.
Nothing to really do but to be patient and keep the dream alive.

There's a lot of things that need to be done here but this has been asked from
the devs for quite sometime. Let people be happy for Pete sake.

[Saefinn]

I think they were more pointing the the fact that I was saying that males and females are different and have different body builds on average. Even if my stance is "You do you and there shouldnt be limitations," there are some vocal people (on the interwebs broadly) who become...less than happy campers, when the insinuation is that there are differences between the sexes and those differences can affect things - such as clothing design.

I know of the kind of people you refer to, but I hadn't spotted it here, however, I accept my reading of the aforementioned post could be inferred rather than implied.

I agree certain fashion is designed around certain biology, but of course that biology isn't always sex or gender restricted either, unless maybe we're talking about something designed specifically with boobs in mind. Given a dainty man might flaunt a Thavnairan bustier better than a very broad and undainty woman, but she might pull off a badass Warrior artefact set better than he does.

[Iscah]

Hair was mentioned all the way back in August: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post5126637

Helmets were mentioned far before Shadowbringers was released. It's the entire reason why various team members took it upon themselves to convert a huge chunk of items when possible, aside from being called out on Viera not being unique whatsoever.

The quote you linked has nothing to do with headgear, which is what I was talking about when you called my post "disingenuous".

And I know about the team spending their own time modeling headgear - I quoted Yoshida's post about it. The reason they did that is because (as Yoshida had said at the Fan Fest presentation) headgear was not going to display at all on the new races.

It sounds clear to me that they had not been assigned any work time to create these models, because the executive decision had been "no headgear at all" because of the unique character designs. Instead they put their own time and effort into making some compatible types of items equippable anyway.

While I don't have a character of either of the races, my understanding is that it's all glasses, circlets and hairpins, but no hats or helmets that would cover up part of the hair. It's a clear line they aren't crossing, even with new gear. It's not just time constraints.

[rachcouture]

I was talking about both hair and headgear, though.

Making assumptions based off Yoshida's words—someone that frequently flip-flops positions or outright contradicts something the development team is doing—is pretty bad practice. This isn't anything new.

[wereotter]

Looked at the list of unlocking items.... most of them I will never wear, but I guess yay for options?

What I am disappointed is that there are certain items not on this list that would be, theoretically, very easy to make for men, and potentially could be made into male versions in the process. I was specifically thinking of the Scion Liberator's Attire. Remove the bra and this outfit would work great on male character models. Same with most of the other scion gear.

I also don't think it would be that difficult to make Lightning and Snow's outfits work on their opposite sexes.

[Esmoire]

Looked at the list of unlocking items.... most of them I will never wear, but I guess yay for options?

What I am disappointed is that there are certain items not on this list that would be, theoretically, very easy to make for men, and potentially could be made into male versions in the process. I was specifically thinking of the Scion Liberator's Attire. Remove the bra and this outfit would work great on male character models. Same with most of the other scion gear.

I also don't think it would be that difficult to make Lightning and Snow's outfits work on their opposite sexes.

The thing is the datamined items are probably not representative of everything that will be opened up. The fact they were datamined and not in the game yet is probably because they are not finished yet. Like, I don't think they'd free the maid suit for men while keeping the coveted butler outfit barred from women. Opening up some of the MogStation outfits will be rather lucrative and I don't think they'll pass that up.