If running a parser makes you cynical and depressed, why do it?

[Goji1639]

I was calm and rational in the response I did to your thread, but also defended the parser's. Yeah, I'm angry here, because you're being ridiculous. Just because someone misuses the program, doesn't mean the program is bad. But you can't understand that; rather, you refuse to.
And if you got that out of what I said, my "position", then you are a lost cause. That is a really delusional take.

I'm not terrified of Parser's being banned, because realistically, that's impossible. People will just make new third party software's and bypass it. The only way to go forward from here is to just make it official.

I may be remembering you wrong, but aren't you the one who was making up stories about me being a healer in your group that you kicked, and that was the only reason I was making the thread? I recall you being pretty defensive and trollish, and I can see you already getting pretty defensive here.

Regardless, no tools are inherently bad. Tools are frequently banned anyways, though, when a community proves too immature to handle them. Given my experiences I feel a ban is justified. I'm sorry the way I feel brings out these insecurities in you; maybe you think this kind of thing will get in the way of making parsers official, and that's what scares you.

[Goji1639]

You never said "some" or specified a certain size of the parser users population either. You just said "they" which is a generalization. Just like someone saying "Casuals ruin this game". I don't need to say "All casuals ruin this game" for someone to understand that I referred to them all.

And now you say "The fact is there are plenty of people who use parsers validate themselves by stepping on people who under-perform". Got anything to back up that claim? Or just an anecdotal again? How did you know that plenty of the users do that?

As for rescue, maybe you didn't say "only" so I'll give you that. But you did state that's what the tool does and what it is, which is clearly a false understanding of the tool that you tried to enforce based on your personal experience.

Got anything to back up your sentiment that most people use parsers correctly, or would that be anecdotal? Obviously neither of us polled the entire consumer base and we're just stating our opinions based on our experiences. This difference between you and me is that I'm secure enough to let you state your opinions without needing to try to discredit them.

I understand this community likes parsers, and I've made myself "the enemy" by taking a position against them. You people do a lot of strawmanning when you feel something you like is being threatened, though; and it's just not very effective.

[Vaunhause]

I may be remembering you wrong, but aren't you the one who was making up stories about me being a healer in your group that you kicked, and that was the only reason I was making the thread? I recall you being pretty defensive and trollish, and I can see you already getting pretty defensive here.

You are remembering incorrectly. I responded at around page 22, or so.

Regardless, no tools are inherently bad. Tools are frequently banned anyways, though, when a community proves too immature to handle them. Given my experiences I feel a ban is justified. I'm sorry the way I feel brings out these insecurities in you; maybe you think this kind of thing will get in the way of making parsers official, and that's what scares you.

Sure, tools get banned for the immature usage of it by a community. What I'm saying is the usage of it is not bad enough to justify the ban, that's all. It has more pros than cons, and I feel like the ban would not be deemed necessary in any case. If anything, they should crack down on the people actually misusing it and ban them permanently after a few repeat offenses, if the reports are valid enough.

Uh. That being said... I'm not feeling insecure at all. Why are you jumping to these conclusions, lol? I just like to play as well as I can, because I like to do a good job. What you said earlier; "I'm not sure if I can take you seriously"?

It... really feels like that hat has been flipped upside down. I don't know if I can take you seriously after what you just said.
It's fine if you feel a ban is justified, I don't think that's wrong. Just like I don't think my feelings are wrong for feeling it's not justified to ban it.

And like I said, I don't care if it's banned, realistically, they cannot stop third party programs, and if they did, they'd be demonizing the entire raiding community. Making it official would be the best way, for sure. But banning it wouldn't change anything.

[Alucard135]

Got anything to back up your sentiment that most people use parsers correctly, or would that be anecdotal? Obviously neither of us polled the entire consumer base and we're just stating our opinions based on our experiences. This difference between you and me is that I'm secure enough to let you state your opinions without needing to try to discredit them.

I've met different kinds of parser users. But I don't have enough data to make such an assumption or to consider my observations as facts as you're doing. See the difference? Maybe you consider it a matter of security to state something even without enough evidence to back it up. But in my case, it's considered a matter of ethics that you do not report something as a fact without any evidence. If you feel the need to state something even without proof just to feel secure, then you shouldn't be taken seriously as I stated in my first response.

Also, why do you think parsers are being threatened? Yoshi P knows people are using them and is OK with them. So I don't see any signs of threats at all. Any player that abuses others with parsers would be reported and actions would be taken against them. But guess what? GMs need evidence, not your personal experience. If you can't provide that, then the GMs won't bother.

[Goji1639]

You are remembering incorrectly. I responded at around page 22, or so.




Sure, tools get banned for the immature usage of it by a community. What I'm saying is the usage of it is not bad enough to justify the ban, that's all. It has more pros than cons, and I feel like the ban would not be deemed necessary in any case. If anything, they should crack down on the people actually misusing it and ban them permanently after a few repeat offenses, if the reports are valid enough.

Uh. That being said... I'm not feeling insecure at all. Why are you jumping to these conclusions, lol? I just like to play as well as I can, because I like to do a good job. What you said earlier; "I'm not sure if I can take you seriously"?

It... really feels like that hat has been flipped upside down. I don't know if I can take you seriously after what you just said.
It's fine if you feel a ban is justified, I don't think that's wrong. Just like I don't think my feelings are wrong for feeling it's not justified to ban it.

And like I said, I don't care if it's banned, realistically, they cannot stop third party programs, and if they did, they'd be demonizing the entire raiding community. Making it official would be the best way, for sure. But banning it wouldn't change anything.

Well, if you do recall my thread I was only asking for it to be banned in MSQ and leveling content. I don't really have any issues with parsers being used to try to meta game for Savage content. I dunno, maybe make an official parser that's only operational in Savage and on training dummies, and take a harder stance on parser usage everywhere else.

Either way, once I knew mention of parsers was bannable that was the end of that. The rest of the thread was basically me having somewhat civil discussions with some people, and arguing with the many people who felt the need to get hostile in order to invalidate my negative opinion of parsers. I take people seriously when I can tell they're attempting to be rational.

[Vaunhause]

Well, if you do recall my thread I was only asking for it to be banned in MSQ and leveling content. I don't really have any issues with parsers being used to try to meta game for Savage content. I dunno, maybe make an official parser that's only operational in Savage and on training dummies, and take a harder stance on parser usage everywhere else.

Either way, once I knew mention of parsers was bannable that was the end of that. The rest of the thread was basically me having somewhat civil discussions with some people, and arguing with the many people who felt the need to get hostile in order to invalidate my negative opinion of parsers. I take people seriously when I can tell they're attempting to be rational.

Sure, that's fine. If anything, I'd actually advocate for that idea, for an official parser only being able to be used in 4 scenarios.

Training Dummies (Including the trials, and savage dummies.), Extreme, Savage and Ultimate content.

Dungeon content is nice, because it gives you a quick gauge for your ability, but even so. It's a small sacrifice.

[Goji1639]

I've met different kinds of parser users. But I don't have enough data to make such an assumption or to consider my observations as facts as you're doing. See the difference? Maybe you consider it a matter of security to state something even without enough evidence to back it up. But in my case, it's considered a matter of ethics that you do not report something as a fact without any evidence. If you feel the need to state something even without proof just to feel secure, then you shouldn't be taken seriously as I stated in my first response.

Also, why do you think parsers are being threatened? Yoshi P knows people are using them and is OK with them. So I don't see any signs of threats at all. Any player that abuses others with parsers would be reported and actions would be taken against them. But guess what? GMs need evidence, not your personal experience. If you can't provide that, then the GMs won't bother.

I never stated that anything said here was a fact; again, you're just strawmanning so you can maintain an irrational position. I've already stated this is just my opinion.

Also, SE obviously cares about parsers; since even mentioning you use one is grounds for a ban. They're just not actively hunting people down for using them.

[Alucard135]

I never stated that anything said here was a fact; again, you're just strawmanning so you can maintain an irrational position. I've already stated this is just my opinion.

The fact is there are plenty of people who use parsers to validate themselves by stepping on people who under-perform.

:thinking:

Also, SE obviously cares about parsers; since even mentioning you use one is grounds for a ban. They're just not actively hunting people down for using them.

You don't seem to know that the reason they're not hunting people down for them is because Yoshi P allowed it. The would only take action if you state anything in game because that 's what Yoshi P also stated.

[Goji1639]

:thinking:



You don't seem to know that the reason they're not hunting people down for them is because Yoshi P allowed it. The would only take action if you state anything in game.

lol, well the "fact" that there's probably at least more than 1 person in this entire game who misuses a parser is kind of just a fact of common observation. Like if you were to say that there are "some" people who use parsers correctly, I could probably accept that statement as factual. A LOT of people play this game, so there's probably "some" that use parsers in every way imaginable.

Also, if SE didn't care about parsers they wouldn't ban people for even mentioning they have one. Parsers aren't legal, that's the reality of their position. They've just decided to take the middle-road in regard to punishing their use.

[Alucard135]

lol, well the "fact" that there's probably at least more than 1 person in this entire game who misuses a parser is kind of just a fact of common observation. Like if you were to say that there are "some" people who use parsers correctly, I could probably accept that statement as factual. A LOT of people play this game, so there's probably "some" that use parsers in every way imaginable.

Now you're learning lol.

Also, if SE didn't care about parsers they wouldn't ban people for even mentioning they have one. Parsers aren't legal, that's the reality of their position. They've just decided to take the middle-road in regard to punishing their use.

And now you're resorting to strawmanning. No where did I say that SE doesn't care about parsers nor did I say parsers are legal. All I said was that Yoshi P is OK with people using them as long as they don't talk about it in-game or abuse others with it, which requires you to prove that they did that in-game. And in that case, they would ban the violating player. So I still don't see the signs of parsers being threatened as you stated earlier.