NIN in 5.1

[wereotter]

Keep in mind that you technically only need 7.01 GCDs (and 600 ms plus twice your ping minus the delay between activating the Bunshin skill and generating the Bunshin effect) in the window to benefit across 8 GCDs. If Bunshin is used in the final oGCD gap before a weaponskill, and applies its duration and the end of its animation, you'd need only a 2.11 GCD or less to get 8 hits in at 50 ms ping. That requires, what, 26 SkS? 128 at worst?

oops, you're right. I also neglected to calculate Huton into the GCD cooldown tool I was using, and wrongly assumed you needed nearly 2900 skill speed.

Though I still think I like that this change to Bunshin likely will be a good thing when you consider that ninjutsu will now be on the global cooldown with massively increased potencies means you won't have to hold off performing one becuase you've used Bunshin

[Shurrikhan]

oops, you're right. I also neglected to calculate Huton into the GCD cooldown tool I was using, and wrongly assumed you needed nearly 2900 skill speed.

Though I still think I like that this change to Bunshin likely will be a good thing when you consider that ninjutsu will now be on the global cooldown with massively increased potencies means you won't have to hold off performing one becuase you've used Bunshin

Usually better to just use Fuma to avoid clipping than to delay a Ninjutsu altogether for Bunshin. And that's still assuming a Raiton/Katon clip would cost you more than whatever minimal SkS you were forced to take with ilvl gives.

[KageTokage]

The NIN changes sound nice on paper. I've always struggled with latency issues for their opener and that should be a thing of the past now.

I do wonder how it's going to influence their rotation though, as Bunshin being unable to trigger off ninjutsu seems like it would make it impractical to use them at all while it's active. Would their opener perhaps trigger it after Kassatsu > Hyoshin instead of using it immediately before Trick Attack?

[Vallerie]

The NIN changes sound nice on paper. I've always struggled with latency issues for their opener and that should be a thing of the past now.

I do wonder how it's going to influence their rotation though, as Bunshin being unable to trigger off ninjutsu seems like it would make it impractical to use them at all while it's active. Would their opener perhaps trigger it after Kassatsu > Hyoshin instead of using it immediately before Trick Attack?

It seems you're going to have 30 seconds for those 5 attacks within Bunshin, so it should be fine as long as you don't push them out of TA.

[Kuwago]

It seems you're going to have 30 seconds for those 5 attacks within Bunshin, so it should be fine as long as you don't push them out of TA.

So it seems like I was right with the changes with Bunshin, so it only copies 5 weaponskills now and once those are exhausted Bunshin will deactivate automatically? I'm going to miss my whole 15 second shadow clone T^T then again CD is lowered to 90 and potency is adjusted as well(?)

[wereotter]

So it seems like I was right with the changes with Bunshin, so it only copies 5 weaponskills now and once those are exhausted Bunshin will deactivate automatically? I'm going to miss my whole 15 second shadow clone T^T then again CD is lowered to 90 and potency is adjusted as well(?)

Do we know if potencies are going to be changed or just ninki generation? We already know all weapon skills are going to give less ninki since you only need 50 to use a skill now instead of 80.

[Kuwago]

Do we know if potencies are going to be changed or just ninki generation? We already know all weapon skills are going to give less ninki since you only need 50 to use a skill now instead of 80.

The only potency changes I heard of was the Ninjustu potencies are being adjusted since it's going to be part of our GCD, IIRC it's mostly going to be potency increases for that. I was asking specifically about Bunshin potency since they changed it in patch 5.05 I think, and now they're changing it to only copy 5 weaponskills, so what I was wondering was if it's going to have the potency adjusted again.

[wereotter]

The only potency changes I heard of was the Ninjustu potencies are being adjusted since it's going to be part of our GCD, IIRC it's mostly going to be potency increases for that. I was asking specifically about Bunshin potency since they changed it in patch 5.05 I think, and now they're changing it to only copy 5 weaponskills, so what I was wondering was if it's going to have the potency adjusted again.

Gotcha

Though I do remember reading they said that all skills will generate less ninki this patch. If you're getting the same amount of ninki but everything costs almost half as much, that would be a pretty massive buff. From what I read, skills will now generate 5 ninki instead of 8 ninki leaving the frequency of using ninki skills at all unchanged. Though now I wonder if mug is going to generate the same ammount... In an ideal world this will be buffed to give 50 ninki so it can immediately proc the use of a skill instead of staying on 40 ninki.

[TheGrimace]

I dislike Sonic Break for GNB and so I'm not thrilled with the change to Shadow Fang. Hell, if they're gonna play it off this way, I'd rather they just re-implement it to be like Mutilate was, so that it's on GCD but I can re-apply it at will.

Ninja always fit my OCD playstyle up to this point. Maybe it still will after the update, but I really hope they haven't made things boring. Mudra lag didn't trouble me and so this experience is getting scarier and scarier now as we get closer to patch day.

[KageTokage]

Dunno if my math is just bad, but NIN seems like it got pretty buffed overall.

Ninjutsu potency was mostly doubled across the board with Suiton getting an even bigger buff to 600 potency, combo finishers got buffed slightly, and Kassatsu is on a tiny 15 second cooldown.

The only actual nerfs as far as I can tell are are Trick Attack's debuff being 5% but lasting five seconds longer, Shadow Fang being on a 70 second cooldown and Bhavacakra having lower potency/taking longer to accumulate ninki for.

My most likely horribly incorrect preliminary opener would be Suiton > Spinning Edge (Mug+Meisui) > Gale Slash (TCJ) > Aeolian Edge (Bunshin + TA) > Shadow Fang (Kassatsu + DwD) > Hyoshin (Assassinate) > Raiton (Bhavacakra)