Thread: NIN in 5.1

Originally Posted by wereotter

Why are you stacking so much skill speed as to get 8 GCDs done within 15 seconds? Your GCD would have to be 1.86 seconds to do that.

The change to Bunshin may mean one less GCD being executed under its duration, but now you also won't have to delay executing ninjutsu because you're using Bunshin.

Keep in mind that you technically only need 7.01 GCDs (and 600 ms plus twice your ping minus the delay between activating the Bunshin skill and generating the Bunshin effect) in the window to benefit across 8 GCDs. If Bunshin is used in the final oGCD gap before a weaponskill, and applies its duration and the end of its animation, you'd need only a 2.11 GCD or less to get 8 hits in at 50 ms ping. That requires, what, 26 SkS? 128 at worst?

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Keep in mind that you technically only need 7.01 GCDs (and 600 ms plus twice your ping minus the delay between activating the Bunshin skill and generating the Bunshin effect) in the window to benefit across 8 GCDs. If Bunshin is used in the final oGCD gap before a weaponskill, and applies its duration and the end of its animation, you'd need only a 2.11 GCD or less to get 8 hits in at 50 ms ping. That requires, what, 26 SkS? 128 at worst?

oops, you're right. I also neglected to calculate Huton into the GCD cooldown tool I was using, and wrongly assumed you needed nearly 2900 skill speed.

Though I still think I like that this change to Bunshin likely will be a good thing when you consider that ninjutsu will now be on the global cooldown with massively increased potencies means you won't have to hold off performing one becuase you've used Bunshin

Odd thought:

Since our AoE GCDs only do 120-130 ppgcd (single or combo) and Shadow Fang (780 potency at present) is now unbound, unless they massively nerf its damage it won't be worth AoEing over simply rotating DoTs until 6+ targets... Even assuming they reduce the direct potency to 100 (resulting in 660 potency per use), it'll still slightly outperform DB-HM spam over 5 targets assuming all ticks complete.

...On the whole it just feels really weird to get Mutilate back all of a sudden, and at double-potency at that...

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Odd thought:

Since our AoE GCDs only do 120-130 ppgcd (single or combo) and Shadow Fang (780 potency at present) is now unbound, unless they massively nerf its damage it won't be worth AoEing over simply rotating DoTs until 6+ targets... Even assuming they reduce the direct potency to 100 (resulting in 660 potency per use), it'll still slightly outperform DB-HM spam over 5 targets assuming all ticks complete.

...On the whole it just feels really weird to get Mutilate back all of a sudden, and at double-potency at that...

Didn't they say Shadowfang is gonna be a weapon skill with a 60 sec cd, pretty much like Sonic Break on GNB? Would love that to be untrue, because I like Shadowfang the way it is - we don't need to refresh Huton all that often, so using Aeolian combo over and over might get a bit stale, idk how where did they even get the idea that NIN's combos were too busy or complex honestly.

Originally Posted by Satarn

Didn't they say Shadowfang is gonna be a weapon skill with a 60 sec cd, pretty much like Sonic Break on GNB? Would love that to be untrue, because I like Shadowfang the way it is - we don't need to refresh Huton all that often, so using Aeolian combo over and over might get a bit stale, idk how where did they even get the idea that NIN's combos were too busy or complex honestly.

Most likely it's to compensate for having ninjutsu take up GCD space. A two step ninjutsu is now already more time consuming than a single GCD so effectively every ninjutsu moved onto the GCD costs 2 of what would ahve originally been GCDs.

Thus removing a two step gcd combo done once every 24 ish seconds (comparable to ninjutsu 20 seconds easily with kassatsu included) is a somewhat fair trade. Point being, keeping track of dots that are combo linked while also having ninjutsu on the GCD would result in a LOT less AE if not for the change.

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Most likely it's to compensate for having ninjutsu take up GCD space. A two step ninjutsu is now already more time consuming than a single GCD so effectively every ninjutsu moved onto the GCD costs 2 of what would ahve originally been GCDs.

Thus removing a two step gcd combo done once every 24 ish seconds (comparable to ninjutsu 20 seconds easily with kassatsu included) is a somewhat fair trade. Point being, keeping track of dots that are combo linked while also having ninjutsu on the GCD would result in a LOT less AE if not for the change.

True, while the mudras themselves seem to be just as fast, those wait times between combos and ninjutsu sequences are gonna add up quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Satarn

Didn't they say Shadowfang is gonna be a weapon skill with a 60 sec cd, pretty much like Sonic Break on GNB? Would love that to be untrue, because I like Shadowfang the way it is - we don't need to refresh Huton all that often, so using Aeolian combo over and over might get a bit stale, idk how where did they even get the idea that NIN's combos were too busy or complex honestly.

Ahh, I hadn't seen that. And damn that sucks. Nin rotations have always been pathetically simple. 1 combo SF, 3 direct combos; repeat. Now we have nothing to rotate around? That just feels... awful, honestly.

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

Most likely it's to compensate for having ninjutsu take up GCD space. A two step ninjutsu is now already more time consuming than a single GCD so effectively every ninjutsu moved onto the GCD costs 2 of what would ahve originally been GCDs.

Thus removing a two step gcd combo done once every 24 ish seconds (comparable to ninjutsu 20 seconds easily with kassatsu included) is a somewhat fair trade. Point being, keeping track of dots that are combo linked while also having ninjutsu on the GCD would result in a LOT less AE if not for the change.

So what? Do we have a quota on our dullest skill? Gotta hit it 8 times per minute or we break?

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yes, but not as much as it'd first appear. It'll now do 1000 potency total over melee use (or 1250 when including Ninki generation), down from 1600 (1800), but will generate 40 Ninki, up from 32, and will be available more often. So, yes, you lose 550 potency per press, but you can also press it more often. Since now only 150% more powerful than Bhav (down from 210%), it's a nerf, but that added frequency should keep that nerf slight.

This is what I was replying to