Gnashing Fang Combo, one button?

[shao32]

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yeah that suck when happen ^^.

reynhart again consolidating combos affect greatly the combat feeling of the jobs, not everyone wanna spam the same buttoms all day no matter what they do, you can archive the same by adding new effects and updates to current skills so become something diferent under specific circustance, example DRG raiden trust and nastrod.

applied to our combos as something optional is one thing, force every player to accept for now they have to spam the same button is another, i want buttom diversity and not have my bars filled by the same changed skill like those fell cleaves bar memes.

is not irrelevant, they are oversimplified for a reason, one bcs is pvp and want you to focus on the combat and what players do rather that your bars and for roleplay to make it simple to clear for ppl that didn't toutch the respective jobs of the history (ARC, WHM, SAM and GNB), thats why they don't have more that 4 buttoms.

you forgeth this is a theme park game, they aren't going to make jobs much more complex that we have now, i remember you they explicitly say they aren't going to make jobs as complex as they did inHeavensward , if heavensward is the roof we wont get much more that we have apart jobs get simple and simple each expansion, look at tanks, yeah WAR and DRK need some help bcs they are painfully too simple but they aren't going to be much more complex that PLD for example so don't expect much from that, what we need is more combat complexity no kit complexity.

thats if they add it now while for my part will make me stop playing this game, i dont wanna play GNB or DRK and spam all day only 2 dam buttoms, and in the future the amount of stuff we get will be determinated by the manpower of the dev team, they are already strugling on fullfill that task only have to look at literally the status of most jobs, no wonder what happen when we get 2 more jobs next expansion apart to readapt certain part of the rotations so it's not feel repetitive, bcs it will feel pretty repetitive spam 1-2 buttoms.

And sure enough, the "efficient design = casual entitlement" argument...

Here, let's be hardcore and bloat the UI further, too. Wouldn't want to entitle people by taking a mere two clicks to teleport anywhere. And no more of this right-click interaction when items are used or left-clicking quest items off the duty list nonsense; you can find that stuff in your Key Items inventory like a real adventurer. Gotta stop these plebs in their tracks!

/s

the thing is past version of the jobs show they can be much more complex with what we have so searching complexity with consolidation is literally a poor excuse, sorry if i did sound rude somehow, so complexity doesn't have anything to do with space but how the current skills are designed, simple than that, and siince the devs already point of the level of complexity they want nobody will get much more of what we have by doing this more that increasing the amount of spam on every job wich is less effort for easy results.

[Reynhart]

consolidating combos affect greatly the combat feeling of the jobs, not everyone wanna spam the same buttoms all day no matter what they do

So, some people don't want to spam the same buttons, but some people also don't want to lose some skills because of button bloat...you'll eventually reach one point where you won't be able to please all of them, and choices will have to be made. And one of the decision doesn't change the actual flow of combat, so I feel this would be less troublesome to getting used to.

updates to current skills so become something diferent under specific circustance, example DRG raiden trust and nastrod.

But, that's consolidated skills. There's not much difference between Raiden Thrust replacing True Thrust when "raiden thrust ready" or Vorpal Thrust replacing True Thrust during combo. Same for Nastrond and Geirskogul, VerHoly/VerFlare or Scorch replacing earlier spell "combos".

applied to our combos as something optional is one thing, force every player to accept for now they have to spam the same button is another

Setting the same combo multiple times wouldn't be that a problem, but even then, if you consolidate combo as an option, you'd still have to take into account that people won't use the same number of shortcuts when adding new skills.

they are oversimplified for a reason, one bcs is pvp and want you to focus on the combat and what players do rather that your bars and for roleplay to make it simple to clear for ppl that didn't toutch the respective jobs of the history

Again, it has nothing to do with how the system could be added to every combo without massive development cost since the template already exists.

you forgeth this is a theme park game, they aren't going to make jobs much more complex that we have now

Being a theme park is not an issue. Right now, I'm pretty sure you could clear any content except Savage and EX primal without even applying Darkside once. The added complexity would be for more advanced players and when tackling endgame content. And frankly, consolidating combos would be more new-player friendly since it would guide you through your basic combo. And, it would be much more friendly to controller players, since it would allow more skills to be placed on the right side of the crosshotbar, which is much more comfortable to use.

[shao32]

But, that's consolidated skills. There's not much difference between Raiden Thrust replacing True Thrust when "raiden thrust ready" or Vorpal Thrust replacing True Thrust during combo. Same for Nastrond and Geirskogul, VerHoly/VerFlare or Scorch replacing earlier spell "combos".

they are complety diferent stuff, one thing is having one skill changing to other under certain effect for a specific time on your rotation like all the skills we have consolidated right now and other thing is consolidating entire combos creating a single buttom spam nature on all jobs, im not against the first one, im complety against the second one since it hurts a lot buttom diversity and no matter how much you repeat just add more of the same spam buttom it's doesn't help, make it optional as much not a request to play the game.

Setting the same combo multiple times wouldn't be that a problem, but even then, if you consolidate combo as an option, you'd still have to take into account that people won't use the same number of shortcuts when adding new skills.

to a visual standpoint it's a problem

Again, it has nothing to do with how the system could be added to every combo without massive development cost since the template already exists.

if you only implement the consolidated combos we have already not much, im talking about all te work after that to implement more and more mechanics and buttons to don't leave our hotbars empty.

Being a theme park is not an issue. Right now, I'm pretty sure you could clear any content except Savage and EX primal without even applying Darkside once. The added complexity would be for more advanced players and when tackling endgame content. And frankly, consolidating combos would be more new-player friendly since it would guide you through your basic combo. And, it would be much more friendly to controller players, since it would allow more skills to be placed on the right side of the crosshotbar, which is much more comfortable to use.

we are talking about the same comunity that cry to make everything more easy with every job and content, this thread was made to make gnasing fang combo a brainless 1 buttom spam not to add more complexity, there is a point where adding more complexity to the jobs can affect the develop of fights, the complexity of a job and the fight are complementary, while one can be archive without making combos 1 buttom the other have no limits.

[Reynhart]

they are complety diferent stuff, one thing is having one skill changing to other under certain effect for a specific time on your rotation

The certain effect being "landing the previous weapon skill succesfully". If using Fast Blade would make you "Riot Blade ready", it would be the same, just on a more general scale.

if you only implement the consolidated combos we have already not much, im talking about all the work after that to implement more and more mechanics and buttons to don't leave our hotbars empty.

You don't have to fill every slot, you just have the room for it. And each expansion implements new mechanics, so it would not be that noticeable.

we are talking about the same comunity that cry to make everything more easy with every job and content

Yeah, the same community that still didn't prevent Savage and Ultimate content in Shadowbringers. There is still room to add complexity to the game, most players won't simply use it if they only focus on MSQ and Dungeons.

this thread was made to make gnasing fang combo a brainless 1 buttom spam not to add more complexity

No, this thread was made to suggest that Gnashing Fang on one button would reduce button bloat.

The moment I got Continuation at level 70 and saw how it worked. I questioned why the Gnashing Fang combo also wasn't one button. I feel Gunbreaker has a lot of skills and to reduce "button bloat" having this work as Continuation does on one button would help slightly with that.

And it's especially related to Gnashing Fang since you can't even use the following steps of the combo if you don't started it. So, there's really no "Oh, crap, I pressed Royal Authority instead or Riot Blade".

My suggestion is that it would also allow more animations to make job less repeating visually and help reduce the need to remove skills when they decide to add more.

[shao32]

The certain effect being "landing the previous weapon skill succesfully". If using Fast Blade would make you "Riot Blade ready", it would be the same, just on a more general scale.

its not the same, while DRG rotation for expample still encourage buttom diversity while upgrading certain skills for proper management of you rotation putting 1 skill after another on the same buttom will afect gratly buttom diversity compacting all GCD in to a few buttoms increasing the spam rate for no reason.

You don't have to fill every slot, you just have the room for it. And each expansion implements new mechanics, so it would not be that noticeable.

No, this thread was made to suggest that Gnashing Fang on one button would reduce button bloat.

i will put this together, first there is no problem of buttom bloat, the OP probably didn't use shortcuts properly to claim that, tanks have the less amount of ofensive skills and most defensive skills and stuns are pretty much situational, i been playing this game for 6 years now and they didn't go in to a problem of there is to much buttoms and i still have shorcuts i can use if i want to and i have unused, so is for laziness or missinformation about mapping your skills properly.

Yeah, the same community that still didn't prevent Savage and Ultimate content in Shadowbringers. There is still room to add complexity to the game, most players won't simply use it if they only focus on MSQ and Dungeons.

the same comunity that make several dutys and dungeons get nerfed bcs too hard for they braincells yeah, the same comunity that are going to get new game plus with a very easy option, and how savage as become more easy since alexander.

My suggestion is that it would also allow more animations to make job less repeating visually and help reduce the need to remove skills when they decide to add more.

you can archieve the same with skill upgrades, inner beast and fell cleave for example are a good example, if the devs use more this, animation diversity will be greatly increase depending if you are sync or not, upgrading animations as a reward for manage properly you rotation like DRG ones is a great way to archive that and obviously stop creating inner release windows everywhere.

removing skills will be eventually thing for whatever reason like what happen to dark arts or what they did to delirium , scourge being sustituted by bloodspiller rotation wise so it won't make anything more easy until you start consolidating more and more and more until you have full rotations in 1 single buttom and start calling this kingdom hearts online.

[Reynhart]

you can archive the same with skill upgrades, inner beast and fell cleave for example are a good example, if the devs use more this, animation diversity will be greatly increase depending if you are sync or not, upgrading animations as a reward for manage properly you rotation like DRG ones is a great way to archive that and obviously stop creating inner release windows everywhere.

"Achieve"

Your specific example is interesting because to attain that, they had to remove a strategic option. Sure, most hungabunga-WARs avoided Inner Beast like the plague, but, if things went down, they still had the option to pop Defiance, use Inner Release, and spam Inner Beast to refill lots of HP, while, let's say, waiting for the RDM or SMN to raise the two healers.

If they keep removing skills and thus, options, it will only make fights be on rail even more, since you will have less way to overtake a bad situation.

[shao32]

"Achieve"

Your specific example is interesting because to attain that, they had to remove a strategic option. Sure, most hungabunga-WARs avoided Inner Beast like the plague, but, if things went down, they still had the option to pop Defiance, use Inner Release, and spam Inner Beast to refill lots of HP, while, let's say, waiting for the RDM or SMN to raise the two healers.

If they keep removing skills and thus, options, it will only make fights be on rail even more, since you will have less way to overtake a bad situation.

thanks for the correction ^^

well lets be honest, WAR case was special bcs the tank stance simplification, WAR was for year a interesting concept that didn't never work bcs dps over everything, a job that could switch stances depending of what they need was fun and to be honest his versatility give them a great adventage to many years,but since they didn't ever bother to properly desing WAR around that concept it gets deleted same with the dark arts mechanic how was degradated and eventually removed in post of simplification and now both jobs are... well you know what they are, it's mostly fault of the lack of vision of the devs more that anything else and still the mitigation vs dps is a lost fight.

raids have never been really kind with chances to overtake anything on savage and more at least, hard enrages and instant kill mechanics are pretty much invalidate that, defiance and his old kit was really nice, in fact makes WAR op in a situation they have to go full wall mode but in reality was useless and create disparity betwen the comunity, "no you have to be full deliverance" "no, i wanna be a tank not a dps" ect ect, cover is pretty dead right now too all that stuff.