Gnashing Fang Combo, one button?

[Reynhart]

SE can't just force combo consolidation in to the game, there is players that don't like to spam the same buttons for long periods of time (me for example)

Set the same combo on multiple slots, problem solved.

the solution is not consolidating combos, it's merely stupid no, it's upgrade current buttons, improve them and evolve it, remove some but adds others that sustitute and get better involved with the kit something they didn't for many jobs this expansion

No, it's not. It's annoying to lose skills, and strategic options, just to save buttons when we could fix button bloat without losing anything. And boring to see the same animations over and over again...

so can we stop talking about masive combat reworks that we don't need please?

This system already exists for PvP and roleplay duties, and wouldn't change anything about skill rotation or balance. In what world would it be a "massive rework" ?

[shao32]

Set the same combo on multiple slots, problem solved.

nope since you sugestion implique get new skills so all the new space will be used and you won't really have space to put the same consolidated combo the number of times you want to in a confortable way, it can lead to visual confusion since you will have a lot buttons changing the icon constantly and you can't rely really on muscle memory for it since for what? just spam random all you combo buttons, literraly rolling your face over the keyboard, you won't be able to mess around with the rotation so it's making it easy for the sake of making it easy.

No, it's not. It's annoying to lose skills, and strategic options, just to save buttons when we could fix button bloat without losing anything. And boring to see the same animations over and over again...

thats relative, while i miss certain skills is not annoying for all, it's only annoying if what we get in enchange is useless of literally worse and boring, at the end all you space gain will be used for other stuff and eventually you will find yourself on the same situation where you have to remove skills to get new ones so you wont solve anything, just delay 1 expansion meaby 2 the inevitable, you should consider for tome ppl is way more boring spam the same buttom over and over againg compared to dealt with the considerable amount of animations we already have, only DRK and healers iare repetitive for the poor rework but the rest of the jobs are not boring to watch.

This system already exists for PvP and roleplay duties, and wouldn't change anything about skill rotation or balance. In what world would it be a "massive rework" ?

both systems use a oversimplified versions of the jobs, on roleplay duty only thancred use the consolidated combo and it's only 1, all of them y'sthola, hien, alphinaud and thancred use a maximun of 4 buttons for everything.

you say multiple times this need to be used to incorporate even more buttons and more mechanics to get more complexity, DPS have enough levels of complexity only tanks are simple and still PLD and GNB are on reasonable level of complexity, we don't really need more complexity and we can archive great levels of complexity with what we have, example HW-SB DRK and pre 4.2 WAR rework, so that point is complety irrelevant, all this just scream i want to do the maximun amount of fancy stuff doing the minimun physical effort for it and almost complety removing the margin of error on a game that is already is easy in so many aspects, it would make it more boring since you wont need more that spam 1-2 buttons to complete stuff and promote laziness.

so yeah it will implique a great amount of manpower implement, develope and balance all what you say at the same time all jobs will requre much more manteinance to secure the amount of mechanics you wanna add on top of what we have and make it work properly at the same time adding new jobs to the game. this last point is more important bcs the combat dev team are only 4 guys, more jobs means less time to properly develop current jobs properly so they want to make everything more simple for the sake of cuantity something if you didn't notice start hapening this expansion.

[Shurrikhan]

all this just scream i want to do the maximun amount of fancy stuff doing the minimun physical effort for it

And sure enough, the "efficient design = casual entitlement" argument...

Here, let's be hardcore and bloat the UI further, too. Wouldn't want to entitle people by taking a mere two clicks to teleport anywhere. And no more of this right-click interaction when items are used or left-clicking quest items off the duty list nonsense; you can find that stuff in your Key Items inventory like a real adventurer. Gotta stop these plebs in their tracks!

/s

[Reynhart]

Grrr....type a long answer, close the window by accident...

nope since you sugestion implique get new skills so all the new space will be used

Yes, when the next expansion drops, a time when you'll have to redo your bar to include the new skills anyway. And considering how some jobs are already pretty stripped on skills, they'll have a hard time removing skills over and over.

thats relative, while i miss certain skills is not annoying for all, it's only annoying if what we get in enchange is useless of literally worse and boring

Sure, I doubt lots of people miss Featherfoot. Scourge is another topic, especially now that Gunbreaker has Sonic Break, so it's clearly not a situation of "we want to remove single GCD DoTs"

both systems use a oversimplified versions of the jobs

Which is irrelevant in regards to how the system already exists, and could be applied to our combos.

we can archive great levels of complexity with what we have, example HW-SB DRK and pre 4.2 WAR rework

Yes, and you what those jobs had ? More skills and more things to manage. Tell me now what great level of complexity those two jobs achieve.

so yeah it will implique a great amount of manpower implement, develope and balance

No, it wouldn't because 1) the system already exists and 2) the skill rotation would be exactly the same for now, thus, having absolutely no impact on the balance.

[shao32]

snip

yeah that suck when happen ^^.

reynhart again consolidating combos affect greatly the combat feeling of the jobs, not everyone wanna spam the same buttoms all day no matter what they do, you can archive the same by adding new effects and updates to current skills so become something diferent under specific circustance, example DRG raiden trust and nastrod.

applied to our combos as something optional is one thing, force every player to accept for now they have to spam the same button is another, i want buttom diversity and not have my bars filled by the same changed skill like those fell cleaves bar memes.

is not irrelevant, they are oversimplified for a reason, one bcs is pvp and want you to focus on the combat and what players do rather that your bars and for roleplay to make it simple to clear for ppl that didn't toutch the respective jobs of the history (ARC, WHM, SAM and GNB), thats why they don't have more that 4 buttoms.

you forgeth this is a theme park game, they aren't going to make jobs much more complex that we have now, i remember you they explicitly say they aren't going to make jobs as complex as they did inHeavensward , if heavensward is the roof we wont get much more that we have apart jobs get simple and simple each expansion, look at tanks, yeah WAR and DRK need some help bcs they are painfully too simple but they aren't going to be much more complex that PLD for example so don't expect much from that, what we need is more combat complexity no kit complexity.

thats if they add it now while for my part will make me stop playing this game, i dont wanna play GNB or DRK and spam all day only 2 dam buttoms, and in the future the amount of stuff we get will be determinated by the manpower of the dev team, they are already strugling on fullfill that task only have to look at literally the status of most jobs, no wonder what happen when we get 2 more jobs next expansion apart to readapt certain part of the rotations so it's not feel repetitive, bcs it will feel pretty repetitive spam 1-2 buttoms.

And sure enough, the "efficient design = casual entitlement" argument...

Here, let's be hardcore and bloat the UI further, too. Wouldn't want to entitle people by taking a mere two clicks to teleport anywhere. And no more of this right-click interaction when items are used or left-clicking quest items off the duty list nonsense; you can find that stuff in your Key Items inventory like a real adventurer. Gotta stop these plebs in their tracks!

/s

the thing is past version of the jobs show they can be much more complex with what we have so searching complexity with consolidation is literally a poor excuse, sorry if i did sound rude somehow, so complexity doesn't have anything to do with space but how the current skills are designed, simple than that, and siince the devs already point of the level of complexity they want nobody will get much more of what we have by doing this more that increasing the amount of spam on every job wich is less effort for easy results.

[Reynhart]

consolidating combos affect greatly the combat feeling of the jobs, not everyone wanna spam the same buttoms all day no matter what they do

So, some people don't want to spam the same buttons, but some people also don't want to lose some skills because of button bloat...you'll eventually reach one point where you won't be able to please all of them, and choices will have to be made. And one of the decision doesn't change the actual flow of combat, so I feel this would be less troublesome to getting used to.

updates to current skills so become something diferent under specific circustance, example DRG raiden trust and nastrod.

But, that's consolidated skills. There's not much difference between Raiden Thrust replacing True Thrust when "raiden thrust ready" or Vorpal Thrust replacing True Thrust during combo. Same for Nastrond and Geirskogul, VerHoly/VerFlare or Scorch replacing earlier spell "combos".

applied to our combos as something optional is one thing, force every player to accept for now they have to spam the same button is another

Setting the same combo multiple times wouldn't be that a problem, but even then, if you consolidate combo as an option, you'd still have to take into account that people won't use the same number of shortcuts when adding new skills.

they are oversimplified for a reason, one bcs is pvp and want you to focus on the combat and what players do rather that your bars and for roleplay to make it simple to clear for ppl that didn't toutch the respective jobs of the history

Again, it has nothing to do with how the system could be added to every combo without massive development cost since the template already exists.

you forgeth this is a theme park game, they aren't going to make jobs much more complex that we have now

Being a theme park is not an issue. Right now, I'm pretty sure you could clear any content except Savage and EX primal without even applying Darkside once. The added complexity would be for more advanced players and when tackling endgame content. And frankly, consolidating combos would be more new-player friendly since it would guide you through your basic combo. And, it would be much more friendly to controller players, since it would allow more skills to be placed on the right side of the crosshotbar, which is much more comfortable to use.

[shao32]

But, that's consolidated skills. There's not much difference between Raiden Thrust replacing True Thrust when "raiden thrust ready" or Vorpal Thrust replacing True Thrust during combo. Same for Nastrond and Geirskogul, VerHoly/VerFlare or Scorch replacing earlier spell "combos".

they are complety diferent stuff, one thing is having one skill changing to other under certain effect for a specific time on your rotation like all the skills we have consolidated right now and other thing is consolidating entire combos creating a single buttom spam nature on all jobs, im not against the first one, im complety against the second one since it hurts a lot buttom diversity and no matter how much you repeat just add more of the same spam buttom it's doesn't help, make it optional as much not a request to play the game.

Setting the same combo multiple times wouldn't be that a problem, but even then, if you consolidate combo as an option, you'd still have to take into account that people won't use the same number of shortcuts when adding new skills.

to a visual standpoint it's a problem

Again, it has nothing to do with how the system could be added to every combo without massive development cost since the template already exists.

if you only implement the consolidated combos we have already not much, im talking about all te work after that to implement more and more mechanics and buttons to don't leave our hotbars empty.

Being a theme park is not an issue. Right now, I'm pretty sure you could clear any content except Savage and EX primal without even applying Darkside once. The added complexity would be for more advanced players and when tackling endgame content. And frankly, consolidating combos would be more new-player friendly since it would guide you through your basic combo. And, it would be much more friendly to controller players, since it would allow more skills to be placed on the right side of the crosshotbar, which is much more comfortable to use.

we are talking about the same comunity that cry to make everything more easy with every job and content, this thread was made to make gnasing fang combo a brainless 1 buttom spam not to add more complexity, there is a point where adding more complexity to the jobs can affect the develop of fights, the complexity of a job and the fight are complementary, while one can be archive without making combos 1 buttom the other have no limits.

[Reynhart]

they are complety diferent stuff, one thing is having one skill changing to other under certain effect for a specific time on your rotation

The certain effect being "landing the previous weapon skill succesfully". If using Fast Blade would make you "Riot Blade ready", it would be the same, just on a more general scale.

if you only implement the consolidated combos we have already not much, im talking about all the work after that to implement more and more mechanics and buttons to don't leave our hotbars empty.

You don't have to fill every slot, you just have the room for it. And each expansion implements new mechanics, so it would not be that noticeable.

we are talking about the same comunity that cry to make everything more easy with every job and content

Yeah, the same community that still didn't prevent Savage and Ultimate content in Shadowbringers. There is still room to add complexity to the game, most players won't simply use it if they only focus on MSQ and Dungeons.

this thread was made to make gnasing fang combo a brainless 1 buttom spam not to add more complexity

No, this thread was made to suggest that Gnashing Fang on one button would reduce button bloat.

The moment I got Continuation at level 70 and saw how it worked. I questioned why the Gnashing Fang combo also wasn't one button. I feel Gunbreaker has a lot of skills and to reduce "button bloat" having this work as Continuation does on one button would help slightly with that.

And it's especially related to Gnashing Fang since you can't even use the following steps of the combo if you don't started it. So, there's really no "Oh, crap, I pressed Royal Authority instead or Riot Blade".

My suggestion is that it would also allow more animations to make job less repeating visually and help reduce the need to remove skills when they decide to add more.