Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Kabooa]

(By hardcore I mean people who enjoy a little effort, not no-lifers).

This generally isn't what hardcore means. Redefining it to sound less damning is kind of disingenuous.

That’s like saying you have a pair of legs, if you want to make walking harder, just walk on one leg! Sorry, but intentionally inconveniencing myself just because you say so is just silly. Also, they said they will be nerfing crafting actions.

By the way, if we are following your logic, they shouldn’t have a savage or harder tier of raiding because you feel that everyone deserves to feel special. That, quite frankly, is just ridiculous. :P

In basically every game, there are self imposed challenges by those who feel the base content isn't challenging enough for them. These are generally where speedruns are born from, level 1 modes, no gear runs, etc. You need only look at a singular game franchise like Dark Souls to see the lengths people go to, by -actively removing their own options- to increase the challenge of the game.

No gear, level 1, no dodge, no sprint, no parry runs.

Even in this game, there are currently self imposed challenges for the savage tiers that people have created that are -theoretically- survivable, for those who have already done their speed runs and are looking for something more.

[ForteNightshade]

If you are annoyed with some of the skills and think they make crafting too easy, don't use them. Then you can make it harder for yourself without ruining crafting for others.

This doesn't accomplish anything though because part of the crafting mini-game is playing the markets and selling stuff. You can't make that harder since no one else plays by these random arbitrary rules. That Facet set you limited yourself making will still sell for a fraction of what it would in Stormblood, and especially Heavensward. It wasn't like crafting was Gordias levels in Stormblood either. It just wasn't laughably easy like Shadowbringers has reduced it to.

[CookiesNCreams]

This doesn't accomplish anything though because part of the crafting mini-game is playing the markets and selling stuff. You can't make that harder since no one else plays by these random arbitrary rules. That Facet set you limited yourself making will still sell for a fraction of what it would in Stormblood, and especially Heavensward. It wasn't like crafting was Gordias levels in Stormblood either. It just wasn't laughably easy like Shadowbringers has reduced it to.

Well said. /clap

[KageTokage]

I've been using a ridiculously outdated macro since early ShB but can apparently one-button specialist macro 2* items with minimal HQ mats (It's almost impossible to not end up with dozen of HQ aethersands) and cheapskate overmelds.

I think delicate synthesis is probably the biggest culprit in crafting being trivial as it is currently.

[Liam_Harper]

Delicate Synth is bonkers and way too good, though Prep is a culprit too. Its main strength is that it's almost a second Brygots with Strides that doesn't consume IQ. 200% is huge.

The IQ "nerf" doesn't seem very well thought out. We reach cap so early in the craft and this is still the first tier of the expansion.
PbP and Muscle Memory are dying abilities now.

The lv80 skills seem completely pointless. I'm baffled what they were thinking with those.

Reuse is also another baffling design. The interaction with Reclaim is so obvious I can't tell if they intended it, or if they handed ShB DoH design over to someone who's never done crafting. A lot of casual crafters still haven't caught on to just how good this ability is. It's a goldmine.

[ForteNightshade]

Delicate Synth is bonkers and way too good, though Prep is a culprit too. Its main strength is that it's almost a second Brygots with Strides that doesn't consume IQ. 200% is huge.

The IQ "nerf" doesn't seem very well thought out. We reach cap so early in the craft and this is still the first tier of the expansion.
PbP and Muscle Memory are dying abilities now.

The lv80 skills seem completely pointless. I'm baffled what they were thinking with those.

Reuse is also another baffling design. The interaction with Reclaim is so obvious I can't tell if they intended it, or if they handed ShB DoH design over to someone who's never done crafting. A lot of casual crafters still haven't caught on to just how good this ability is. It's a goldmine.

Don't forget Prudent Touch. While it may have been introduced in Stormblood, it's one of the major culprits for easy macro spamming. A lot of these abilities could work if they were restricted somehow; single use or something to that effect? But they're insanely powerful on their own. Together? It turned crafting it's baby mode.

Since I got into crafting, I have never once see the current crafted sets dip below six figures even when it's deep into an odd numbered patch. Currently? They're all near worthless from a profit perspective. And that's supposed to be our endgame.

[CookiesNCreams]

I agree with the above posts obviously, and I would like to point out that crafting was never intended to be this easy. Look at 2.x ARR...crafting was absolutely not easy in the slightest. So it’s clear they wanted DoH to be a part of the game where only certain types of players will enjoy. And that’s fine. Nothing wrong with dividing different types of players up.

Now, it’s obvious they have been pandering to casual players or players during 4.x and 5.0 complaining about how hard crafting was. I understand making an MMO popular, but what I don’t understand is screwing up one of the only things that made FFXIV unique. And making it so easy, to the point where a 10 year old that plays Fortnite can HQ something. No other mmo in existence had such a complex and unique crafting system. It got people like me hooked right away.

I think it’s time they stop messing the crafting up, and go back to how things used to be. They said they’ll be making adjustments to balancing crafting actions throughout 5.1 - 5.2, so I assume 5.1 will bring the nerfs, and further down the line will come difficult content.

I honestly believe this thread had a lot to do with Square Enix saying that. Otherwise they may have just ignored it and refused to touch crafting again. The message HAS to get across to them that they are absolutely destroying their crafting system, and in the process, making endgame crafts worth dirt. Its not even fun to craft anymore.

The two moves that need to go/get nerfed obviously being Prudent Touch and Delicate synthesis..might as well remove Hasty Touch I and II if nobody uses it anymore..

[DrWho2010]

this is just a cry for a return to millions of gil items for sale on the marketboard that only the top cognescenti can afford just to make fat gil purses fatter and to keep the top 1% richer than the rest of the playerbase combined.

i'm all for the driving down of prices massively data centre wide. gil is worthless in the game unless you want a mansion or have that absolute need to have the latest items from a new patch day 1. or you're a raider who doesn't have crafting up and ready to go for the latest savage and must buy all their own raid food/pots/gear.

[CookiesNCreams]

this is just a cry for a return to millions of gil items for sale on the marketboard that only the top cognescenti can afford just to make fat gil purses fatter and to keep the top 1% richer than the rest of the playerbase combined.

i'm all for the driving down of prices massively data centre wide. gil is worthless in the game unless you want a mansion or have that absolute need to have the latest items from a new patch day 1. or you're a raider who doesn't have crafting up and ready to go for the latest savage and must buy all their own raid food/pots/gear.

Don’t be so passive aggressive, that’s not it at all. Also, one could say you’re just stirring up a cry for unnecessary accessibility and easy difficulty for endgame content so you can have access to everything without putting in work. You must have hated FFXIV during 2.x and 3.x if that’s really how you feel about it, lol.

Also, it’s good to have some sort of barrier between players, because who’s going to stay a competitive crafter? The hard working player that enjoys the craft system truly, or a player that cries and whines because (the former) player has access to things they earned?

I’m glad they are nerfing craft actions, because if you truly believe crafting should stay this way, I don’t know how you would fair against games like monster Hunter World or any online multiplayer game, where your laziness isn’t tolerated and quite frankly, punishes you for it.

[Kabooa]

Don’t be so passive aggressive, that’s not it at all. Also, one could say you’re just stirring up a cry for unnecessary accessibility and easy difficulty for endgame content so you can have access to everything without putting in work. You must have hated FFXIV during 2.x and 3.x if that’s really how you feel about it, lol.

Also, it’s good to have some sort of barrier between players, because who’s going to stay a competitive crafter? The hard working player that enjoys the craft system truly, or a player that cries and whines because (the former) player has access to things they earned?

I’m glad they are nerfing craft actions, because if you truly believe crafting should stay this way, I don’t know how you would fair against games like monster Hunter World or any online multiplayer game, where your laziness isn’t tolerated.

If you remove most of your competition, are you really a competitive crafter?