Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[DrWho2010]

he wants ANYBODY to be able to do this.

that's a good thing.

[CookiesNCreams]

that's a good thing.

Well, yeah. But let me rephrase. He wants everyone to do it with ease like it’s a piece of cake. That’s not how it should work. If you want tons of Gil, if you want to compete right, if you want the best gear, you should earn it. Not pray that the developers give you everything for minimal effort.

[ForteNightshade]

that's a good thing.

It is... if things were made more accessible without neutering them entirely. An equivalent would be him wanting more people to attempt Ultimate—which he does—but going about it by nerfing the difficulty into the ground because people kept complaining it's too hard. Keep in mind, making the i450 items more of a difficult craft doesn't gate newer crafters. They have 95% of the items still at their disposal. They just have to put more work on the relevant recipes.

Put another way. They didn't make crafting competitive, they turned it into a joke so people who don't want to put in much effort can get the same benefits as those who did.

[DrWho2010]

see you can't make an Ultimate comparison because they know that's the top of the top. sure they want more people to be able to access it but they won't make it easier to beat.

there is no argument for making crafting as difficult as "savage" or "ultimate".

[Ksenia]

see you can't make an Ultimate comparison because they know that's the top of the top. sure they want more people to be able to access it but they won't make it easier to beat.

there is no argument for making crafting as difficult as "savage" or "ultimate".

I agree, you can't compare content that is mostly macro and doesn't force you to make immediate decisions but there is a comparison to be had, it just associates the grind and redundant nature of the reward system.


Run savage 1500 times to get Phantasmagoria to get the latest set of gear, that you proved you didn't need by running the content 1500 times without it.
With crafting, make the HQ set with lesser gear, proving you don't need the latest HQ set because you already made it without it.


It's the treadmill. In order to make it something we can even accomplish, they need to make it something we don't require. By the time it is required, something better has come along.



They wasted a lot of opportunities to apply better rewards. All those story quests at the crystarium. Here is some more pointless materia, could have been recipes. Journal completion could have been recipes, a trait to increase meld success but no, we got no innovation. We got more of the same. As long as we are getting more of the same, you won't see difficulty. Just another pothole in the road to macro automation.

[Kabooa]

see you can't make an Ultimate comparison because they know that's the top of the top. sure they want more people to be able to access it but they won't make it easier to beat.

there is no argument for making crafting as difficult as "savage" or "ultimate".

Nah, but there is one for having something comparable. As far as that goes I don't really disagree with the intent (Something challenging) so much as I disagree with the examples they've given (Which is exclusivity).

Challenge I will support wholeheartedly, but not exclusive challenge.

[CookiesNCreams]

see you can't make an Ultimate comparison because they know that's the top of the top. sure they want more people to be able to access it but they won't make it easier to beat.

there is no argument for making crafting as difficult as "savage" or "ultimate".

Just because you are dismissing arguments given to you, doesn’t mean there aren’t arguments against your “everybody deserves everything” mentality. Please don’t strawman this. I want to see your rebuttal for this particular argument:

You absolutely can make a comparison between the two, they’re hardly different. Endgame combat content such as raiding, is separated between hardcore players and casual players (normal modes). Goal? Fun. Mounts. Gear. Endgame content for crafting is basically crafting endgame gear. Goal? Gil. Fun. Furniture. Competition. Glam. Endgame gear. Endgame weapons. There is no separation between two types of players, casual and hardcore ones. They are all competing in the same bubble, receiving the same rewards, and getting hardly any special benefits that motivate others to get into crafting.


You want everyone to: Craft endgame content easily, like it is nothing. Which, in turn, inflates the game with crafters who are willing to craft just about anything. They have no experience on how actions actually work, they google rotations, they have no knowledge on competing to earn maximum profits, etc. You want everyone to make easy gil, get easy rewards/gear, and you want everyone to have a walk in the park. But when it comes to combat content, it’s a problem? To me, it sounds like you are simply just a bit lazy and/or do not like seeing serious crafters grind for what they earn, and it seems to cause you some sort of discomfort seeing people craft difficult crafts in 2.x/3.x. It honestly would not surprise me if you were one of the people who called us “elitists” back then.

[Deathgiver]

SNIP

There is a huge difference between time gating and skill gating though. With better knowledge, advice, and practice people get better and can complete savage or ultimate (I acknowledge there is a time factor in their, but it's a one time investment vs an every patch investment). I don't get more time for grindy things without actually giving up other parts of my life. I'm not some noob that doesn't understand crafting, I usually hand make the macros I use instead of going with whatever has been posted in discord or reddit, I just don't have time to grind for hours a week. Your arguments are entirely about being entitled based on time you have available, when SE has made it clear that they want people to be able to access almost everything in the game without making it a part time job.

[CookiesNCreams]

There is a huge difference between time gating and skill gating though. With better knowledge, advice, and practice people get better and can complete savage or ultimate (I acknowledge there is a time factor in their, but it's a one time investment vs an every patch investment). I don't get more time for grindy things without actually giving up other parts of my life. I'm not some noob that doesn't understand crafting, I usually hand make the macros I use instead of going with whatever has been posted in discord or reddit, I just don't have time to grind for hours a week. Your arguments are entirely about being entitled based on time you have available, when SE has made it clear that they want people to be able to access almost everything in the game without making it a part time job.

This argument is basically you wanting things handed out because you can’t find the time to play the game for a little while? You do realize back in 2.x and 3.x, the game did not care how much time you had, you either had time or you didn’t. That’s not “entitlement”, but you can call it whatever you want I guess. :P

Also, they literally said in the Digest that things will be balanced, which in turn, will make crafting not so easy and accessible endgame as it once was. So clearly, they see the problem with this.

[Kabooa]

This argument is basically you wanting things handed out because you can’t find the time to play the game for a little while? You do realize back in 2.x and 3.x, the game did not care how much time you had, you either had time or you didn’t. That’s not “entitlement”, but you can call it whatever you want I guess. :P

Also, they literally said in the Digest that things will be balanced, which in turn, will make crafting not so easy and accessible endgame as it once was. So clearly, they see the problem with this.

Entitlement is thinking you deserve something on a subjective basis.

This entire thread is technically entitlement.

The position that "I do this right so I should get stuff" is no different than "I do this long enough so I should get stuff" when it comes to entitlement. That's the primary difference between Savage/Ultimate and Crafting.

Savage/Ultimate is "I did this right so I should win". Time is a factor, but theoretically, if you go in, and do everything right, and do enough damage, you win. There is no time-based gate, just "You did the mechanics right and did enough damage"

Crafting is "I did this long enough so I should win". You keep saying 'difficulty' but ARR and HW wasn't difficult. It was grindy. It was long. Time was the primary factor. Did you have time to level everything, did you have time to get materia, did you have time to gather if you didn't have the gil, etc.