Eden Savage Loot

[HyoMinPark]

Neither are you, you benefited from this system greatly so for you it is great for others it is not = FACT

No, I have literally argued about the system you are so keen to implement—you took it from a suggestion I made, mind you. I just have the ability to see the flaws in it and look at the bigger picture, where as you seemingly don’t. You are too focused on one thing (gearing mains) that you’re ignoring the problems with your suggestions and the reasons why the developers wouldn’t consider them.

I actually didn’t benefit as much as you think I have. My main is only geared because I started clearing Week 1, and I didn’t limit myself to the first two fights. I still had my own pieces of main gear that I had to buy, and I bought nearly all of my upgrade items save for one twine that I was given Week 2. I was the last DPS in my static to get the weapon coffer—my weapon never dropped (and still hasn’t by the way). None of this is really any of your business—you’re just erecting strawmen at this point because you’re really set on trying to make me into the bad guy here.

that means you have geared your main and managed to gear an alt class as well and you also say about your healers that have some ES gear and yet still have some 440 gear - BUT you have geared your main and at least 1 alt class - meaning what I am saying is correct and is true and is an actual FACT based on what you yourself have said. PEOPLE are able to gear their main class and an alt or 2 or 3 before some people have been able to gear their main classes.

The only reason I have managed to gear BRD is because BRD BiS is literally the same as DNC BiS minus the weapon. That is the only reason it is geared. If BRD BiS were different from DNC BiS, then no, I actually wouldn’t have BRD geared. Do you understand the concept of shared BiS?

YOU haven’t geared your main class. Others—in both PUGs and statics—have managed to gear their mains just fine. The system may not have been in YOUR favor this tier, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not working. It’s your OPINION that it’s not working simply because it hasn’t worked for YOU. I’d wager if you’d won all of your rolls, you’d be singing a far different tune about the system as a whole.

Neither are you, - Also I have listened to what you have said and I have agreed some of the things you have said have been good suggestions but you are not willing to compromise on this system you benefited from this system greatly so for you it is great for others it is not, however that dose not mean I am not willing to listen or discuss it just means you are 100% backing a system which you have benefited greatly from meaning your judgement and opinion is biased because you have benefited greatly from the system - of course you will back a system that you have benefited from thats natural and of course you wont see the flaws in it when you have benefited from it

I don’t support your system because it is flawed. That doesn’t mean I’m unwilling to compromise. Your system ignores alt jobs entirely—because you want to only stress the importance of gearing main jobs, but people don’t take 6 months to gear a main job. Eventually, people move on to alts, and they want to be able to get alt gear. The developers will not change this system to an alt-unfriendly system no matter how much you want them to.

Your opinions on this system are shaped because you haven’t benefited from it. Don’t try and say that they aren’t—if you had won all your rolls, I’m certain that this thread wouldn’t even exist. You want to gear your main job—you think that people gearing mains is more important than people wanting to gear alts—and you want to implement a system that gives you exactly what you want without regard for what others want.

Firstly you mentioned you other jobs FIRST - You also mentioned your STATIC means they are fair game if you didnt want people to speak about them why mention them

I mentioned what my Alphascape static went through with the OLD SYSTEM. That is the only time I’ve really mentioned my static (which, I don’t even raid with that group anymore) in this thread short of:

1. The example comp I provided (I used the comp of my current group)
2. Any time you decide to drag them up

You’ve spent numerous posts trying to tell me what I’m okay with, what I want, what I think and feel. Why don’t you stop that? Because you aren’t me. And what I want—what I’m okay with, and what my opinions are on the mains versus alt argument—are irrelevant here.

Also I am not painting you in a bad light - you are doing it yourself - also you are making yourself look bad because you are basically making yourself look very selfish and unwilling to allow other people to gear themselves as opposed to you gearing all your alt classes.

The implications that you consider yourself more important than people who are gearing their alts are littered throughout your posts. You want a system that prioritizes main jobs because you’re having bad luck gearing your own. You’ve repeatedly said that players who are gearing mains are more important and “need the gear more” than someone who wants it for an alt job. I’m sorry to say this, but that is a very selfish thing to say. I don’t see how I’m the one being selfish by telling you that you have no right to arbiter who gets gear and who is more important: main jobs or alt jobs.

I don’t care to gear all of my classes. But here you are again telling me what I want to do. I’ve never mentioned once in this thread about the jobs that I want geared. At most I stated that my secondaries are healers, and that BRD is geared simply because it shares gear with DNC.

No I have said I am in no rush to gear my alt classes but I do want my main geared. . . this has been said in the past.

You changed your argument to “I am in no rush to gear my alt classes” after I pointed out that you specifically said, “I’m in no rush to gear my classes”.

[Mavrias]

The system is not fine sorry but it isnt - people should be able to gear their main class before others can gear their 3rd 4th or 5th alt class - also I have been doing E1S since it became available. . .I have managed to get . . . 3 items 1 drop. 2 were gotten with books ill soon be able to get the 3rd item with a book.

I understand you think its fine because you have benefited greatly from it but just because you have benefited greatly from it dose not mean everyone has and personally I would prefer a fairer system.

So.... you got out rolled? Which is what i said? Because you can gear your main before other people gear their alts. You just jave bad luck. Its not like people gearing alts are preventing you from rolling. Tank BiS requires two E1S pieces: a ring and a bracelet. The rest (neck, waist, and earring) are all augmented deepshadow. Now if youre not going further than e2s which i believe you stated in an earlier post, then you could make the argument that you also want the waist piece so youre up to 3 pieces needed, as the upgrade deepshadow material dropped from e2s is only for accessories. So... you in theory, you already have everything you need from e1s. Or will shortly, if the drop you won from rolling is not BiS. Same with e2s. Only tank BiS is feet and hands. And of course the upgrade material, if youve been doing e2s for at least 6 weeks then you should have one of those already from pages.

I pugged for the first 3 weeks and i'm pughing off and on now. The system is very good for pugs if you roll well.

[ForteNightshade]

Other people have - please do read what others have said - and OR what is that a threat or an attempt at one ?

Your attitude is very bad yes you have even tried to threaten me and all you have done is come off as stand off ish and aggressive in that manor - I mean "STOP MOVING THE GOAL POST OR " thats a threat

If you deem this a threat, I don't even know where to begin except to laugh. Telling someone not to continuously change their argument or abruptly say "go back and read every single post" isn't a threat nor is making snarky comments. The fact you've thrown around elitism and now take offense this easily shows why that term lost all meaning years ago.

Read what others have said you have eyes just like I do please read the past comments

Make your own arguments. I shouldn't have to go back and comb through every single post because you can't be bothered to make the argument yourself. Or perhaps better stated, make it clear and concise instead of getting into a pissing match with everyone who disagrees with you.

Correct it is not and the people who are gearing their alts in opposed to people gearing their mains are WANTING and GREEDING things that they do not actually need as they have already geared their main class and could be put to better use by others who NEED things

Neither do you. No one needs the gear. They want it. How difficult is that to comprehend? You want the gear for your main, and they want it for their alt jobs. You both contributed yet only you want rewards. Once again, you can ask people pass since you're trying to gear your main but they aren't obligated to do so.

[ForteNightshade]

And just an FYI - its not just me who thinks the system is bad for people forced to pug or at least FLAWED as you can now clearly see and read - and also see the part where they say the system is FANTASTIC FOR STATICS - this is the reason you like the system and will defend it and hope it remains. So if I am SO WRONG, like you keep claiming I am and the system works perfectly - how have other people got the same views as me, are we all wrong are you the only one who is right you one of the people who have benefited form this system one of the people this system has worked very well for, no its just because you like this system and have benefited from it that you like the system - but thats normal and to be expected but dose not mean it is the BEST system nor dose it mean its a fair system as people have said and I myself have said this system heavily favours people who are in STATICS like yourself.

Do try not to quote people out of context. Notice how Noitems agreed with HyoMin? While they do go on to offer suggestions for ways to tweak the current system—as does Billy—they aren't readily agreeing with you.

I agree with Hyomin on this. The system now allows everyone a piece to be useable and not have a situation of abandoned gear. Yeah it sucks rolling against everyone but the difference now is that you have a much higher chance of getting extra gear for your job on top of the book since the pool is bigger with coffers.

However if anything I would like a inventory check for it where the game checks your inventory to see if you have the item for your current job and assign the loot actions based on that. For example if you're playing a tank and currently do not have the tank headpiece for E2S allowing you to need, while on the flipside only allowing you to greed if you do have it.

While some jobs BIS is Deepshadow and would still allow them to need if they currently don't have them I think a system like that would be an improvement to our current one. At least adopting more of the JP mindset of getting people who really need the gear taken care of first before those leveling their alts.

[ForteNightshade]

Have not changed it once - my point was and still is that the loot system is unfair and it is very hard for people who PUG things to gear and others have said the same - and your opinion is not a fact - you did sound elitist you did sound as if you were making a threat.

You've changed it several times. Earlier you were prattling on about the Primal system, claiming it was so much better. Despite it literally being the old Savage system with total RNG. HyoMin literally quoted where you changed your argument and you handwaved it by claiming she misinterpreting you.

Basically, it's always someone else's fault. If you have to continuously tell people "go back and read every single post" and they're still finding contradictions. Maybe it's a you problem...

Made my argument and backed it up and others have agreed, if you can not be bothered to READ why should i have to REPEAT myself for you

Please quote where they specifically agree with. Note the word specifically. People citing the current system needs work doesn't mean they agree with you. They merely want to improve what's already there not change it entirely.

our language is foul honestly. . . .this just shows what you consider acceptable behaviour - threats - foul language - insults. . . .

Today I learned the word "piss" is foul language...

Where dose billy say she agrees with Hyomin ????? Quote it if you can, you cant dont worry because you made this up Billys post was on page 1 before Hyomin even posted . . . so unless your saying this person can see in to the future and agreed with Hyomin you are not being truthful here are you. . . her last post was on page 5 but again nothing about agreeing with hyomin

Also they are agreeing with me the system dose need work they both openly say this - how do you not get that ????? Both people and even more than these two agree there is something wrong with this current system which is what I have been saying therefore they agree there is something wrong with the current system - which is what I am saying - therefore they are agreeing with me, they even say it should be improved on. . .

Also you have quoted a number of things out of context - you have made threats - you have used foul language - you have insulted me - you now even lied about others. . . .Says everything I need to know

... do you understand basic English? Note where I cited Billy; immediately after referencing Noitem's making suggestions to tweak the current system. Those were two separate points: you quoting Noitems out of context, and his and Billy not readily agreeing you but still wanting tweaks made to the current system for pugs. I find it quite ironic you then go on to accuse me of lying when you literally omitted a paragraph of someone else's post because it went against your stance. Pot and kettle much?

Saying they went to see improvements is not the same as completely overhauling the system. You want to go back to the old system except make xyz changes. That's radically different than saying suggesting improvements—which I have suggested myself.

Furthermore, how have I quoted anything out of context? I've literally been quoting you and doing "snips" because your posts are half a mile long and go on random tangents. If you're saying you're out of context, I agree.

[HyoMinPark]

And how is this not offensive nid ystyried Saesneg yw fy iaith gyntaf. Rwy'n teimlo bod hyn yn sarhaus iawn, yn gyfan y byddwn i'n ei alw'n racisum hwn

If you don’t speak English as a native language, then why are you trying to argue English grammar? You clearly didn’t understand the sentence—yet, you ventured to say that ForteNightshade was lying in their post. Which, they aren’t.

Here’s how you break down this statement:

Do try not to quote people out of context. Notice how Noitems agreed with HyoMin? While they do go on to offer suggestions for ways to tweak the current system—as does Billy—they aren't readily agreeing with you.

The first “they” in this sentence

While they do go on to offer suggestions for ways to tweak the current system

is referring to Noitems, who was mentioned in the sentence before:

Notice how Noitems agreed with HyoMin?

The second “they”

they aren’t readily agreeing with you.

is still referring to Noitems. The clause

—as does Billy—

is a separate addendum that refers back to this point of the sentence:

While they do go on to offer suggestions

Grammatically, the entire sentence is referring mostly to Noitems and how they agreed with me—the context that you purposely omitted from your quote. The clause about Billy is an added thought that only applies to the statement of making suggestions. You could remove the clause, and the sentence would still mean the same thing.

That’s how you grammatically parse that sentence.

It’s fine if English isn’t your first language—but perhaps you shouldn’t try to correct native speakers, attempt to parse their sentences (incorrectly), and argue about the grammatical function of things like the general “you” when this isn’t your native language.


Also, that wasn’t a racist comment.

also you complain now mine are half a mile long whats HyoMin infact this persons has posted some longer ones than me. . .complain about one and not the other who dose the exact same thing

My posts are only as long as they are because I have to navigate and respond to you and all of your tangents. I’d wager that if a conversation were occurring between ForteNightshade and myself, they’d probably tell me I’m typing too much.

[ForteNightshade]

You mean the OLD loot system - where people could NEED and GREED things - yes it was better in my own opinion and that of a few others have even said implement need / greed - it ensured people could gear their MAIN class before gearing their alts. Hyomin has not quoted where I changed my argument my argument nor my point of view have changed

Actually, several people disagreed with you, including the ones you quoted.

So, reading your suggestion, I don't think going back to the older system is the best solution,because the new system is just too good to statics to really throw away like that. However, a better solution,I think, would be to add 1 item at the end of every floor (kind of like how e4s drops 1 random weapon and a weapon coffer) and make that item be for something that's currently on your team.

Notice how Billy suggested an improvement to the current system whereas your suggestions have been going back to the old system or making another overhaul. You can insist your stance never changed but just like before, you saying something doesn't make it accurate simply because you want it to be.

thats correct and thats what I have been saying the current system is flawed there fore it needs improving

You literally wanted the old Primal system back, and said as much to me. That isn't improving the current system, it's going back to the old one. You subsequently changed that to wanting algorithms for this, that and everything else when people kept pointing out your ideas were flawed.

Pritty sure its always been classed as foul

Yes. In pre-school.

And how is this not offensive nid ystyried Saesneg yw fy iaith gyntaf. Rwy'n teimlo bod hyn yn sarhaus iawn, yn gyfan y byddwn i'n ei alw'n racisum hwn

Accusing someone of not understanding English when they're blatantly wrong on their interpretation of the language, and then have the audacity to attempt at correcting them, is not offensive. The fact you consider it racist is laughable. First elitism, now racist. You're getting in all the buzzwords that sadly lost their relevance because of people throwing them around meaningless like you.

Among the threats - foul language and insults wheres the part where you actually suggest making improvements ???? all you have done is preach on about how this system is fine and totally works. . . when it really doesn't. Oh and again made threats used foul language and made a number of insults. . .

Literally my first post in this thread. You even quoted me. Kind of ironic, considering you've told me several times now of either not reading your posts or that I need to go back and read every single post in this thread. Apparently, you couldn't be bothered to take your own advice.

Im not saying I am out of context at all lol nice try though better luck trying next time - also you complain now mine are half a mile long whats HyoMin infact this persons has posted some longer ones than me. . .complain about one and not the other who dose the exact same thing

Because I'm not replying to HyoMin? I'd snip her posts do, though she isn't going on random tangents. Her posts are long because she's trying to parse the myriad of nonsense you keep prattling on about.

My original Post

And people both pointed flaws in this post but also offered their own suggestions. You then jumped on literally every post where someone disagreed—so much so someone even remarked how they lost interest in the thread solely because of your attitude. Your response was something along the line of "HyoMin did it first!" Which is little more than childish drivel. Posts afterwards have been citing the old Primal system, changing the current loot system entirely and a myriad of other things; including frequent breaks to call people various names. At this point, I've wasted enough time on your nonsense.

[Jybril]

Oh dear, what a train wreck of a thread lol.

[SaberMaxwell]

I before e except after c. Except when it isn't.

[KageTokage]

I don't think it would've hurt to have had a class-specific drop in addition to the coffers in every single fight as opposed to just ES4.