Concept for a Magic Melee DPS

[Duelle]

If you mean "I don't want RDM getting overshadowed from getting melee magic" instead of "Only RDM should have melee magic" that's basically the same thing in context worded differently.

I'd say it's more that there's a concern SE will just simply leave RDM where it currently is and give everything being suggested or asked for to Mystic Knight, which is something I don't put outside the realm of possibility.

In terms of lore, I'll agree that stuff can be retconned or added to. My go-to origin for Mystic Knight would be the Allagans, since Phlegethon sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other bosses in Crystal Tower. Since aetheric limitations are already a thing (see: SMN), you could use that to explain why player character Mystic Knights can't do things like room-wide Abyssal Slashes or Megiddo Flames. If we were to go the dual-wield route suggested by the OP, you could also say that our puny bodies can't successfully channel the amount energy needed to bring about Mystic Knight combat into one blade, which is why PCs have to use two swords instead. I had different ideas for a Mystic Knight design, but it is entirely possible to use Phlegethon as a sort of base for the job.

I am arguing that your design could be adapted in part for exactly the kind of Magic Melee DPS this thread is discussing

Here's some barebones concepts to show why I disagree with you:

Using the OP's suggestion as a starting point, Mystic Knight wields twinswords and shifts between 3 stances. Each stance is aligned with two elements (fire & earth, ice & water, thunder & wind), with the primary element affecting auto attacks and weaponskills. oGCDs include things that I call "off-hand strikes", which are attacks using the off-hand blade that take on the effects of the secondary element and have different properties depending on which stance you have active. For example, one of these strikes primes the target(s) to take more damage from a follow up weaponskill (off-hand strike that applies an earth debuff, which becomes a molten rock debuff that deals DoT damage if followed up by a certain fire weaponskill). The token ranged skill (which I call "sonic boom but with swords") also changes properties depending on which stance is active.

As of right now, the gameplay loop would be to activate a stance, then use weaponskills + oGCDs to generate a resource. When the resource caps, the Mystic Knight gets a signet related to the stance. This is their cue to swap to another stance (I'm thinking of adding a penalty for staying in a stance for too long). The goal would be to cycle between the three stances, get their signets and use that to activate a mode that reduces the GCD for all weaponskills (and possibly reduces or eliminates the cooldown of oGCDs?) for a duration determined by the number of signets active. Kinks have to be worked out and there's likely going to be changes (like coming up with a way to use up signets on stuff outside of the super mode).

An alternative would be to have it swap through elements the way MNK shifts through Raptor/Coeurl/Opo-opo forms, but via its weaponskill combo finishers. This I admit sounds a lot more attractive if we want to focus on abilities that change depending on which element you have active. In this version you'd also have a skill that shifts you between two different elemental rotations composed of the primary elements (fire, ice, thunder) and secondary elements (earth, water, wind). The only issue is that I'm very tempted to give this version skills that offer utility depending on which element is active, though it's the sort of utility SE doesn't use for anything (a skill afflicting the mob with Slow if you're attuned to earth, but stuns the mob if attuned to thunder). For the sake of simplicity, we could just trim down the number of elements the job has access to.

The other stuff:

Let's not get wires crossed here. "More than once every 45 seconds" could be "Once every 45 seconds unless you hit Manafication to bring that down to 20 sec every 2 minutes" or flat out "Once every 40 seconds" and still fit that criteria, which is closer to what we have with Scorch anyway -- but we both know that's not what you're asking for, is it?

The gameplay would still consist of spell spam until you reach an arbitrary number on the resource bar, so yes, I would still have a problem with it.

That said, if the devs increased the frequency of the melee combo, I'd take it. I wouldn't be entirely kind to it, but I would also recognize it as a step forward.

Yes, it's at the end of the combo, which means it's right before the next combo.

That's a very questionable stretch of logic. Even ignoring that, you're still casting a spell after it if Dualcast procs.

Slight aside: Have you considered "Imperil" as an alternative to Death Blossom? It's a skill from FF13 that increased the target's vulnerability to magic.

Death Blossom in FFXI reduces magic evasion, which was close enough on a concept level. It also has name recognition (hence why NIN's AoE knife attack being called Death Blossom was so baffling to me, specially if you take the Japanese name of that ability into account). I could use Imperil for another ability though, so I appreciate the suggestion.

1) The boss is moving, probably because they have some kind of dash attack. Your best bet is to close the gap as quickly as possible so you can return to comboing, not to stand still hardcasting a spell.

If a boss is moving and you know about it, you'll keep up with them to continue attacking. Same thing if they spin around like Construct 7. In such a scenario you're gonna be moving and comboing Quick Thrust => Iron Thorn => Instant Spell unabated. If you proc Dualcast you'll follow that with a spell. That, however, is not the context in which my reply was written.

2) Bullet Hell phase. Your best bet is to keep moving and throw what ranged attacks you have that won't stop your run, because if you stop moving for any considerable period, it's very likely you'll die. It's exactly the scenario that would have doomed an unprepared BLM's DPS before ShB, exactly what RDMs gained Reprise for in spite of Dualcast (and bear in mind, without the guaranteed Dualcast, you can't reliably slidecast either), and exactly why every single melee's ranged attacks are instant effects.

My original version of Jolt (200 potency, 30 gauge, instant cast, ranged, can proc Dualcast) was in part there to serve this purpose. So it's good that I already had that scenario covered.

3) The boss has some kind of physical impediment preventing you from reaching them with melee for an extended period, like the Ice phase in Thunder God. Assuming the boss isn't completely immune to damage at this point anyway, there is probably something else for you, as a melee, to be doing other than standing around spamming spells on the boss, like wailing on an Icewolf instead.

Well, yes, add phases are to be handled as expected.

You talked about being out of melee range and how no RDM would attempt to do anything until they were able to close the gap. I argued to the contrary, and you decided to bring up unrelated situations (movement phases taken on an entirely different meaning when you're able to attack and continue your combos) and absolute no brainers (Who would ignore adds during an adds phase?) in an attempt to counter.

So, use an instant to pop Dualcast. Good luck making us any less of a rezbot in that case.

Hey, you're the one that wanted guaranteed Dualcast; I'm perfectly happy with it being purely a proc to react to. That said, considering you're spending a chunk of the Aetherblade bar to cast Jolt, that means Dualcast Verraise has a considerably greater trade off than it currently does (delaying the enchanted sword combo by up to 9 GCDs depending on how much Jolt were to cost and whether Swiftcast is off cooldown). I could bump the cost back to 30 if you're that worried about it. Or Verraise could be removed, which wouldn't be a bad idea since I could replace it with a Moulinet-like skill instead.

And if you loathe the idea of buffing casting somehow, you could just straight-up reduce the cost of melee.

Reducing mana consumption sounds attractive but the tough part is deciding how low. I guess if we were to go this route, making making the melee combo cost 60/60 might work. That cuts out roughly 4 GCDs, which I guess is better than nothing.

Sounds like there's demand for Spellblade then. Why not just let them have it, rather than holding that fantasy ransom to RDM?

You seem to have forgotten some people came on to FFXIV's RDM expecting a sword & spell hybrid. Especially after how FFXI's RDM turned out. And that sentiment, while not unanimous, has existed since 1.0 was announced (one of the first topics in the FFXIV section of the fan forum I was a member of at the time was a melee RDM topic).

Just adding more melee abilities would not increase the ratio of melee comboing! At least, not in melee's favor.

Just additional melee abilities wouldn't cut it. You need mechanics to support it as well. I think that is a given, however.

if you were truly interested in 'expanding Red Mage's melee potential,' you'd start by focusing on the Mana economy

Adjusting mana gain and consumption might increase the melee combo's frequency, but it does nothing to address the problem I have with the job's gameplay: that the job spams spells for most of its gameplay and that sword use is gated behind a set of numbers on the mana bar. I'll still take it, but I wanted to make my stance on this clear. Needless to say, my write-up addresses that very problem.

I'm not adverse to making adjustments to the current design, but as I said in another thread, to give melee a bigger role in regular gameplay you'd need to give incentives to use melee skills or being in melee outside of 80/80. Leaving everything else alone, you could add a melee skill to use as a opener for spell chains or a second melee combo that does same (I'd probably go with the former). Yes, you'd have to stand in melee range. No, that's not a bad thing.