Worst housing system I have ever seen

[Shougun]

When someone asks a completely obvious question like "how can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing but this game cannot?", then I think it's valid to provide an obvious answer.

Yes, I know they are referring to instanced "houses" but even that prompts an obvious answer:

It maybe damaging to the conversation, but at the same time why would someone start a thread asking something that is completely obvious? It reads like people whining over something that was already given to them. Instanced housing exists in the game, players aren't completely left out, this already seems like progress but so many of these whine threads act like they don't even exist. This is why I personally feel people should be reminded to cherish what they already have. Most of these anti-housing threads are reductionist to begin with, which is why I feel they are so deserving of reductionist answers to their questions.

I do understand that questions like "how can she slap?" are not the best questions if you wanted initiate change or at least good conversation (questions like that get a lot of "because she can.. what are you asking me?"), but I would disagree with you that it's already been given once request is understood (what's been given not equal to what is asked for). When instanced housing is requested, what is intended, what is meant to be desired, is not what exists, instanced housing as they ask for it is not what FFXIV has. And as one does when you want for something, you go and ask for/show desire for something as one should be able to- to be told what is asked for already is given is inaccurate (although perhaps desire could be worded more clearly if it's creating miscommunication, Jojoya is right that we should try to be clear as possible especially as these things go across translated lines).

So I can see how some wordings would/could annoy you and you may feel like they don't deserve an answer that you want to give, but I would disagree at the point that it's been delivered or that they can't ask for it even if there has been shown resistance (by the dev team) thus far. As a sort of example it was asked for a long time to allow us to queue and chocobo at the same time and SE was like "impossible", yet it was shown to be well worth the long game ask anyways. As chocobos are much better now that you can queue and use them (quality of the companions greatly improving, and of course this isn't the only example where persistence and showing the value the players have for something paid off- personally I'm even thinking further to their next MMORPG if they can't do something about it here).

If you wish people were less exaggerated or had better questions, fine and fair enough lol, but still the bottom line is that they're asking for something that doesn't exist currently and at least personally it doesn't seem like it should be hard to deduce that's what they're asking for either (given context and examples of other MMORPGs that have been able achieve the requested result). So if they clearly meant maroon when they said a dark purple red, I guess I find it unnecessary to clog up the information further. Although to be fair it could be possible it's not clear, which is why just in case I always (now) clarify what I mean about systems I'd like to see (now or in another mmorpg).

Also while not really important to the point I would say these are not anti-housing threads in the slightest, if we're at least attempting to be overly clear and not ask / pass silly questions like "how can she slap?" lol. Clearly people want housing to be more accessible and flexible than it is currently, if anything these are very much pro-housing threads but anti-FFXIV's current system. :P

Or I suppose I'd say in another way, while admittedly addictive, if you feel they've worded poorly and yet you understand their poorly worded desires does it help to give them a poorly worded answer vs improving the understanding and attempting to move the conversation to something more constructive? You're allowed to say it's more fun to respond purposefully fire with like fire.. but I just think that's a bad deal in the long run for communication ("I know what they meant, I dislike how they said or that they made it a really messy point so I'm going to knowingly further contribute to it being a mess"). Also of course to be fair and to add not everyone who posts pro-house ( , "instanced house" lol) is posting in good faith either, some of what might come off as bad is just a bit unregulated passion but I'm sure some are more of a bad faith chaos / salt farm; although, having a similar passion/desire for instanced housing (as I've described it) and wanting to actively discourage the current system as a preferred system even if it only is taken into consideration for the next mmorpg.. it might be harder for me to see bad faith actors that look similar due to my bias.

This is why I personally feel people should be reminded to cherish what they already have.

While I think this can become dangerous if people start to basically go in the direction of "SE deserves my money and doesn't need to work for it" (an argument I don't feel you tried to make), I do agree that we should remember the good things and also tell SE about them. Just hearing people complain non-stop probably doesn't help one's enthusiasm for work. Definitely remember to appreciate things, just also don't turn it into "we should be thankful of X pitiful thing" lol (not saying anything is pitiful, it was only meant as a fill in the blank sentence). Not trying to slippery slope you as again I don't think you were saying people are not allowed to criticize, but I bet you could also imagine that argument (of needing to be thankful what you have) being used in a sort of white knight environment where everything is gold even if it's really really not "all gold". Actually that's why I made sure to mention I think SE's objects in the housing are fantastic, and I truly mean that. I do want them to know largely I think the game is amazing and I also try to take part in compliment threads, but I also don't want to be afraid to criticize what I feel like should be (obviously objective on what is good/bad lol XD). Of course not every thread that suggests something is criticism either, probably obvious but I felt to add it anyways.

[Edax]

Also while not really important to the point I would say these are not anti-housing threads in the slightest

Lets look at some of these thread titles:
"Worst Housing System I have ever seen" (THIS VERY THREAD)
"Housing System cannot be adequately fixed"
"Taking my money elsewhere"
"The Housing System is Trash"
"Dreadful Housing System"
"How can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing and this game cannot?"

While I think this can become dangerous if people start to basically go in the direction of "SE deserves my money and doesn't need to work for it" (an argument I don't feel you tried to make), I do agree that we should remember the good things and also tell SE about them. Just hearing people complain non-stop probably doesn't help one's enthusiasm for work. Definitely remember to appreciate things, just also don't turn it into "we should be thankful of X pitiful thing" lol (not saying anything is pitiful, it was only meant as a fill in the blank sentence). Not trying to slippery slope you as again I don't think you were saying people are not allowed to criticize, but I bet you could also imagine that argument (of needing to be thankful what you have) being used in a sort of white knight environment where everything is gold even if it's really really not "all gold". Actually that's why I made sure to mention I think SE's objects in the housing are fantastic, and I truly mean that. I do want them to know largely I think the game is amazing and I also try to take part in compliment threads, but I also don't want to be afraid to criticize what I feel like should be (obviously objective on what is good/bad lol XD). Of course not every thread that suggests something is criticism either, probably obvious but I felt to add it anyways.

If feels like the vast majority of housing discussions ended up being reduced to owning a house. For those whom already own homes, there's very little to talk about anymore because few actually want to talk about the housing system anymore, the conversation devolves to talking about the darn placards which is only a very small part of the system. It's not that people shouldn't be afraid to complain, it's that the placard complaints have drowned out all the other housing conversations. I'm a big housing advocate but it's just so tiring to read all these repetitive, reductionist rant posts. What is there even to say anymore?

[Shougun]

Lets look at some of these thread titles:
"Worst Housing System I have ever seen" (THIS VERY THREAD)
"Housing System cannot be adequately fixed"
"Taking my money elsewhere"
"The Housing System is Trash"
"Dreadful Housing System"
"How can a game that came out in 2004 have instanced housing and this game cannot?"

You missed the rest of that quote . These people want houses, so they're not anti-housing. I know what you mean but if you were going to give people silly answers for what you felt were silly questions I thought it only fair to point out these are not anti-housing threads. They want housing, thus not anti-housing. They're anti-FFXIV housing, they want something different. They're not the same though, but like I said I understand what you're trying to say- they're definitely anti-something lol.

Yes people are disgruntled and yes they are anti-FFXIV's system, that doesn't mean they're against housing though.

If feels like the vast majority of housing discussions ended up being reduced to owning a house. For those whom already own homes, there's very little to talk about anymore because few actually want to talk about the housing system anymore, the conversation devolves to talking about the darn placards which is only a very small part of the system. It's not that people shouldn't be afraid to complain, it's that the placard complaints have drowned out all the other housing conversations. I'm a big housing advocate but it's just so tiring to read all these repetitive, reductionist rant posts. What is there even to say anymore?

Would recommend if the forums get tiring to stop reading the ones that tire you- just hardcore nope out of threads (I do), the forums are never going to change in that regard lol. Beyond that people will naturally spend more time complaining here (hopefully constructive criticism) than celebrating, because if you're happy or at least apathetic it's more likely you wont bother saying anything at all (which is a bit sad I guess, but generally how people are).

As for what more to say, well /shrug lol. New people coming in all the time, they've got something they want to say. Old people whose feelings haven't changed and want to pulse the issue. W.e.

There is going to be a lot of repeat here, and will always be unless SE becomes hyper restrictive on the speech and content that goes on in the forums. I can understand it can get annoying though, there are ceterain issues that people really care about that I don't.. but at the same time I understand I've got my own cares so I tend to leave their threads alone.

[Edax]

I doubt any of the devs will read this as all these complaints are basically piss in the wind to them. But my issue is the fact that THEY KNOW what the issues are currently, THEY KNOW timers are dumb, THEY KNOW people are losing sleep over this, THEY KNOW an entire FC owns half a ward, THEY KNOW this current set up is promoting click bots/RMT house flipping, THEY KNOW all of this and have to to put out a single quick patch to fix any of these issues.

My quick fix would look like this:
1) END PLOT RELOCATION: Stop it completely, people with houses shouldn't get dibs on plots that are for people without them, ESPECIALLY with the RNG timer implementation. Plot relocation is currently a bane to new house buyers and a boon for RMT. Someone wants to buy a house with money? All someone has to do is relinquish the plot, by pass the timer and they have the new spot. RMT users who own a house love this system, go check reddit if you don't believe me.

2) Destruction of any and all non-active house users and change of use policy: I've taken a stroll to expirment during peak hours mind you and I saw 4-5 houses being used. Actual people hanging out there doing things/activities/queuing/chatting. While roughly 80% of the houses in the wards are completely dead. People are complaining about losing the "community feel" if instanced housing becomes a thing and I say BS, I don't see any community outside of my FC neighbors another constantly active group. All other houses are dead. Might as well have nobody around.

3) Deval timers AND sale timers on placards: This is literally a no brainer. You will stop SOOOO many headaches and people can sleep and have a proper notion of when to be on for those houses to pop. RNG causes imense frustration especially when it wastes people's sub time. WASTING PEOPLE'S SUB TIME ISN'T A FIX. Give people a set time to return and at least they can now feel LESS cheated because they didn't waste 20+ hours of thier lives sitting in one spot praying for RNGesus.
.

You missed the rest of that quote . These people want houses, so they're not anti-housing. I know what you mean but if you were going to give people silly answers for what you felt were silly questions I thought it only fair to point out these are not anti-housing threads. They want housing, thus not anti-housing. They're anti-FFXIV housing, they want something different. They're not the same though, but like I said I understand what you're trying to say- they're definitely anti-something lol.

Yes people are disgruntled and yes they are anti-FFXIV's system, that doesn't mean they're against housing though.

These threads saying they're quitting the game or these threads advocating the destruction of the current housing system are very much interpreted by me as anti-housing as they are very much not pro-housing.

Would recommend if the forums get tiring to stop reading the ones that tire you- just hardcore nope out of threads (I do), the forums are never going to change in that regard lol. Beyond that people will naturally spend more time complaining here (hopefully constructive criticism) than celebrating, because if you're happy or at least apathetic it's more likely you wont bother saying anything at all (which is a bit sad I guess, but generally how people are).

As I said, I'm a pro-housing advocate. I want to talk about housing. I don't see people spamming near identical threads in the other sub-forums.

[Shougun]

These threads saying they're quitting the game or these threads advocating the destruction of the current housing system are very much interpreted by me as anti-housing as they are very much not pro-housing.

As I said, I'm a pro-housing advocate. I want to talk about housing. I don't see people spamming near identical threads in the other sub-forums.

Fair enough that you feel they're anti-housing, just so long hopefully you also understand what I was trying to explain ^_^.

Just in case I made a silly example:

A: I love chocolate, I want you to make me a milk-chocolate cake.
B: Okay, I hear you- I've made you a german chocolate cake!
A: I didn't want nuts. I'm allergic to them.
B: I made you chocolate cake, why aren't you happy?
A: I like chocolate, I can't have chocolate cake with nuts- please make me another one.
B: Nah I made you exactly what you wanted.
A: I didn't want this.
B: Literally exactly what you wanted, it's a chocolate cake now get your epipen and be quiet.
A: MAKE ME ANOTHER CAKE
B: YOU WANTED THIS ONE I MADE IT, YOU HATE CHOCOLATE? YOU'RE AGAINST CHOCOLATE AREN'T YOU!?!?!
A: REEEEEEEEEEE
[insert some Gordon Ramsey memes here]

Lol. Clearly B didn't quite deliver what A wanted, just as SE has not delivered housing in the form that I'd say the great majority of players that mention "instanced housing" feel (can't speak for everyone but from what I've read it's true, even if some of the posts are more aggressive than I'd prefer). That's not to say there is no C player who think's German chocolate cake is the best cake, there are obviously lol.. just that for A they do actually love and greatly desire cake (they love housing, they are pro-housing in the concept of housing in an mmorpg) they do not however love german chocolate cake (SE's housing). They're clearly pro chocolate, they're just not pro of the variant made.

Not that I think you have to view it this way, but I doubt if you told people who are making these threads that they hate (or at least are anti) housing, that they hate(/anti) chocolate, that they'd ever agree with you because they don't/are not lol. But I can understand what you're trying to say, so at least I think I see what you're trying to express to me.

Personally I think we should encourage an environment that's open to criticism but also comradery and growth. I understand everyone see's that differently.. so even if everyone agreed with me we'd not agree on end results.. but I do wish we could voice our concerns to SE politely (and I do wish SE takes polite feedback sincerely). Which isn't to say SE must act on every comment or feedback but you'd hope the means of communication are not "the biggest REEE gets the most grease" , because it would encourage bit of a toxic relationship.

I don't want to cause too much side discussion but hopefully we're at an understanding even if it's not a complete agreement lol. Feel free to quote/respond to me of course~! Just warning I'll probably not respond because I don't want to derail the thread's purpose, not to see my response as a lack of interest .

[Jojoya]

Fair enough that you feel they're anti-housing, just so long hopefully you also understand what I was trying to explain ^_^.

Just in case I made a silly example:

-snip the rest -

Player A acting that way is the worst possible approach to trying to get Player B (or SE) to reconsider anything. They're coming off as an entitled, spoiled brat having a temper tantrum. They're going to end up getting ignored.

It no longer matters what they're actually asking for. People stop caring about what Player A wants. They've tuned that person out.

If you're trying to use Player B to represent SE's response to players, it's a bad example. Instead of the "Nah I made you exactly what you wanted", the response should have been "I used up my available ingredients making the cake for you. I don't know when I'll have more to try to make another cake for you because I also have to be making food for these other 700,000 people who don't particularly about cake."

No one is trying to discourage criticism but it needs to be calm, constructive discussion promoting change to benefit the community and not the "I'M GONNA QUIT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME WHAT I WANT" temper tantrums.