Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

[Lambdafish]

Of course there is. Its for the same reason I move any questions about tradeskilling away from the game client.

You also forgot the fact that there are many people in a discord group that would likely be offline on XIV.

If I leave a legit sell party in PF and AFK. So long as they follow the link and post in the discord, anyone who is part of the sale group can take that persons request without needing to be ingame. Convenience is as much a factor in leaving an immediate discord link and is just as likely a scenario as RMT (if not more likely so long as you aren't a cynic).

You see this kind of behavior everywhere, from FC invites to static invites to selling crafted items. Discord is straight up more convenient for the party organizer, regardless of intent.

Basically, what I'm trying to get across in all my posts in this thread: SE changing anything in the ToS or doing anything to ban PF sellers that look legit will simply harm those who are innocent and not the RMT sellers.

I have a couple party finder QOL suggestions from another topic if you haven't read them:

1. Allow players to right-click on a party finder name and click "Add to Blacklist" if the PF description is not to the players' liking.

2. The parties of the players on the blacklist should go on the back end of the party list where the locked duties are.

This is the best idea I have seen in this thread. It won't get innocent people banned, and fixes the supposed inconvenience that these parties cause people.

Edit: I just tested this, the first one is possible if you send a random tell to the person (or join the persons party if they havent set the ilvl to 999) and blacklist them that way, what happens is the party becomes greyed out (shown in the below screenshot). The simple QoL change of making it so BL people appear on the bottom would be great.

[Vnolan]

Basically, what I'm trying to get across in all my posts in this thread: SE changing anything in the ToS or doing anything to ban PF sellers that look legit will simply harm those who are innocent and not the RMT sellers.

This is the best idea I have seen in this thread. It won't get innocent people banned, and fixes the supposed inconvenience that these parties cause people.

They wouldn't be "innocent" if they were performing actions that were against the revised ToS. You say "innocent" but then the ads you show both already violate the ToS as it is now as account piloting (required for Ultimates, BA and Eureka) is prohibited. I don't think I've seen a single "legit" ad since the expansion launched.

[Lambdafish]

They wouldn't be "innocent" if they were performing actions that were against the revised ToS. You say "innocent" but then the ads you show both already violate the ToS as it is now as account piloting (required for Ultimates, BA and Eureka) is prohibited. I don't think I've seen a single "legit" ad since the expansion launched.

Thats exactly my point. I'm saying that creating this change would make currently completely innocent people a victim of persecution. The attitude of many people towards their wishes for the ToS is scarily totalitarian.

The people in the image, by virtue of the image alone are breaking no rules in the slightest (other than maybe posting in the wrong section - which IMO is hardly a bannable offence), there is no mention of RMT, and no mention of anything unsavoury in the slightest (if you could point me to hard evidence of account piloting I would be impressed). While yes you are right that once you get outside of game things will likely become RMT and against ToS, that is entirely an assumption on your part, and creating a ToS rule based on the potential of wrongdoing rather than the wrongdoing itself is a really bad thing.

[Vnolan]

creating a ToS rule based on the potential of wrongdoing rather than the wrongdoing itself is a really bad thing.

How? If SE changed the rules you wouldn't see any complaints. Look at this thread. The few people saying the rules should remain as is claim they themselves don't do it so any change wouldn't even affect them. The OP has 49 likes at this time and I'm sure I could pull up a bunch of OF and reddit threads expressing the same sentiment over the past few years that would dwarf any number of these imaginary legit sellers.

[Lambdafish]

How? If SE changed the rules you wouldn't see any complaints.

You actually got a laugh out of me. Nobody would complain? Sure, ok https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_source=share

This was for minor ToS changes (that muddied the waters and confused players as to what is right and wrong), and you think that your agenda won't cause complaints? FYI that thread has far more traffic than the 49 likes of this thread, which does not have downvotes to verify the validity.

I actually don't know what you want put in the ToS come to think of it. I know who you want to target, but what exactly would you prohibit? Be specific in your wording, and forget about your prejudice and assumptions, because you are willfully ignoring the base fact that burden of proof is on you, and the ToS would need to be written as such.

Minor edit: Going through the post, I realise that I seem to have a higher ratio of likes than people refuting and countering me. How does that factor into your idea that likes on this forum matter in the slightest?

[Endeleon]

You actually got a laugh out of me. Nobody would complain? Sure, ok https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_source=share

This was for minor ToS changes (that muddied the waters and confused players as to what is right and wrong), and you think that your agenda won't cause complaints? FYI that thread has far more traffic than the 49 likes of this thread, which does not have downvotes to verify the validity.

I actually don't know what you want put in the ToS come to think of it. I know who you want to target, but what exactly would you prohibit? Be specific in your wording, and forget about your prejudice and assumptions, because you are willfully ignoring the base fact that burden of proof is on you, and the ToS would need to be written as such.

Nah, ban em. Ban em all I say. If you can't do it yourself, just stop playing.

[Vnolan]

You actually got a laugh out of me. Nobody would complain? Sure, ok https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_source=share

No one would complain about a change to rules about advertising content sales in PF given how few do legit sales (no money, no account piloting, no gil from shady sources). The few who are legit couldn't complain because any discussions taking place outside of the game can't be proven to be within the ToS or not.

I actually don't know what you want put in the ToS come to think of it.?

Prohibition on content sales in PF. Not even the average FFXIV player would be confused as to what would be allowed.

This was for minor ToS changes (that muddied the waters and confused players as to what is right and wrong)

Those complaints were about potentially receiving punishment for violating rules that weren't clear with common actions (telling healers to dps, DPS to use AoE, etc.). In the end it was just hysteria because there hasn't been a single case of someone being banned for something they wouldn't have been under the previous ToS.

that burden of proof is on you

No, when you make claims that Ultimates can be cleared with 7 people or that BA or Eureka weapons can be sold without account piloting, or that there isn't any account piloting when the ads specify console or PC, the burden of proof is on you.

It's already been shown that SE doesn't need any proof and can issue account action based on assumptions.

I'm for RMT by the way and I think SE should officially legalize it (already was clear that they allow it if you keep particulars out of the game) given it's current state so as to have a fair market, but I don't need to hide behind some imaginary group of players to say that.

I realise that I seem to have a higher ratio of likes than people refuting and countering me. How does that factor into your idea that likes on this forum matter in the slightest?

Majority only read the first few posts in a topic.

Are you new around here? People complain a lot about that SEs rules are too strict.

Many people use profanity and it can be done without thinking if emotions are high. How many players advertise in the PF, don't accept real money, don't accept gil from shady sources and don't pilot accounts? You're also forgetting that unlike profanity, there have been numerous topics made by players asking SE to implement a prohibition on ads in the PF.

I can only Imagine How they would react to not being allowed to link their FC discords so they effectively would be infunctional.

"Static looking for..." and "Looking for static for..." - allowed
"Selling...", "Buying...", "Interested in clearing...?" or anything of the sort - not allowed

Then ask for this change rather than advocating a harmful change in ToS.

Prohibit the advertising of content sales via the cross-server PF

The ideal solution would be to add a way to filter out such advertisements in the cross-server PF, but that won't happen anytime soon.

Nov 30, 2017

RMT always finds a way

The topic is about the spam in PF.

we cannot create a system of total censorship

Not being able to advertise in the PF for activity breaking the ToS is total censorship?

having the kind of attitude that wants everyone you don't like to be banned is actually far more harmful than the RMT itself.

I'm not making excuses for RMT

Sure

Just get gm's to join the discords pretend to be players.

Requires more effort and isn't foolproof.

On another note, if I am not mistaken one of those selling discord links from the Primal datacenter PF also show up on the Aether datecenter PF as well.

Yes, several groups advertise on multiple data centers using identical ads and nearly identical dummy accounts. Why would they turn down a data center's worth of customers and money?

[RokkuEkkusu]

You also forgot the fact that there are many people in a discord group that would likely be offline on XIV.

If I leave a legit sell party in PF and AFK. So long as they follow the link and post in the discord, anyone who is part of the sale group can take that persons request without needing to be ingame. Convenience is as much a factor in leaving an immediate discord link and is just as likely a scenario as RMT (if not more likely so long as you aren't a cynic).

You see this kind of behavior everywhere, from FC invites to static invites to selling crafted items. Discord is straight up more convenient for the party organizer, regardless of intent.

Basically, what I'm trying to get across in all my posts in this thread: SE changing anything in the ToS or doing anything to ban PF sellers that look legit will simply harm those who are innocent and not the RMT sellers.



This is the best idea I have seen in this thread. It won't get innocent people banned, and fixes the supposed inconvenience that these parties cause people.

Edit: I just tested this, the first one is possible if you send a random tell to the person (or join the persons party if they havent set the ilvl to 999) and blacklist them that way, what happens is the party becomes greyed out (shown in the below screenshot). The simple QoL change of making it so BL people appear on the bottom would be great.

Lambdafish, I could kiss you right now because someone finally understands me. *wink

On another note, if I am not mistaken one of those selling discord links from the Primal datacenter PF also show up on the Aether datecenter PF as well.