Have we given up on SCH?

[EaMett]

Sch doesn’t “work well” it still has to deal with faerie bugs, a significant amount of clipping and the weird fact that galvanize has higher priority over catalyze, essentially rendering the later useless for the most part.

Also, WHM afflatus skills are actually fun to optimize around. If they just got potency on fluid aura they would be in a good spot. I've had no desire to play AST this expansion, I feel like they really need a bit of love.

[xxvaynxx]

Too lazy to read all this but what's wrong with sch?
They're as strong as they always have been.

[Naychan]

While scholar is functional it’s not really fun anymore. The whole reason I chose it was because of the dots and multiple fairy options. It’s had a great flow to it. Now it feels disjointed. I enjoyed the hybrid part of it. Now it’s just a whm clone with an erratic pet. Whm feels better to play and ast feels clunky like a model t car. I’m starting to feel really sorry that I resubbed for six months.

[Saefinn]

It's fair because as you said, SCH works well, are good Damage Dealer and Healers and want more skills just "to be fun" to play with, while WHM/AST needs some skill rework to become more efficient because their skills has some issues to be fixed, not only be fun, a more urgent question to deal with and waste time and resources to improve it above anything else.

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

My argument would be make all 3 healers fun first before trying to fix them. I'd prefer a broken SCH I enjoy than a non-broken SCH I hate. So SCH working well (by your view) does absolutely nothing for me while I am not enjoying it. I am one of those who complains that SCH is OP despite playing SCH. Though I don't know if it still technically is, but it was definitely in HW and SB. But I'd not be surprised if it still is.

And hey, I defended WHM when people started saying it was fine when it was doing so much better than SCH and AST in new content, because I knew there was stuff career WHM's wanted changed, were unhappy with and were a little shadowed by the fact AST and SCH got immediate big changes, when WHM's was gradual.

We acknowledge that it is a general healer issue to be fun. Honestly, I thought the forums were pretty united on this point. There's a lot of generic threads, but also a lot of job specific ones - AST threads currently dominate with SCH in second. But we need more WHM's complaining if anything if they unhappy. I've been bringing up WHM as I go along as having issues, but I'm not a guy who can really do WHM justice. I've created a thread that's inclusive of WHM, SCH and AST. Billy, who you've also engaged has made a thread that's inclusive of WHM, SCH and AST. As 2 examples.

Without trying to be rude, it's great saying what representation there should be in the threads on the forum, but I don't recall seeing any you've made. I made one about healer downtime because I felt that one of the more prevalent issues across all 3 healers, although I don't think I am the best representation out, there, I made it and I made it with that disclaimer. You're a WHM, we lack WHM threads, if you think there's reasonable feedback you can give on improving WHM's, by all means jump into the generic healer threads if you not already & start a WHM thread too, if any WHM's lurking they may chime in with their own thoughts and feedback.

[Arrhin]

I'm not reading all the previous comments because I'm cat and lazy af, also been a long day. I have played SCH, and will play SCH, as long as I can do the healy things well enough to keep all them punchy stabby ppl alive. I played SCH when it was week af, I played it when it was OP af. I identify as SCH, now git yer clouds of me lawn..

[Hatstand]

But WHM/AST also deserves to be fun, also deserves some skills back to be fun if SCH requires for it.

WHM has 22 Unique Skills in their hotbar, AST/SCH has 26 Unique Skills in their hotbar. WHM must spam Holy for AoE ( 1 skill ), Dia and Glare for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Afflatus Misery and Assize as CDs ( 5 skills total ), AST must spam Gravity for AoE ( 1 skill ), Malefic IV and Combust III for Single Target ( 2 skills ) and has Earthly Star as CDs ( 4 Skills total ), SCH must spam Arts of War for AoE ( 1 skill ), Broil III, Ruin II and Biolysis for Single Target ( 3 skills ) and Energy Drain as CD ( 5 skills total ), they have basically the same amount of damage skills and yet SCH still have more options to do in single target fight. As you can see, that's not a "SCH issue to be fun", it's a General Healer issue to be fun, not only one, all of them deserves to be requested and comtemplated for it and we need to ask for improvment about every single one.

I don't think anyone is going to complain if people open threads that reaches all Healers point instead ask for only one, most of people is looking for a balance between them, not only for a new healer but for ingame content as well, FFXIV Producers can't hear all Players plea to improve the game, but they hear many of them and applies improvements based on it, when we don't openly talk about what's going on in general they can pick up some requests here and there ignoring what's matter and the real problem ( some requests that not even was really relevant ).

Then why haven’t you been posting this on any of the many AST threads that have been posted this week?

Why don’t you make a thread about healers? Or better yet, bump one of the existing threads about all healers by responding to it? Because it seems to me like you’re more interested in keeping SCH specifically down than in building WHM up. I’ve seen WHMs like that before.

Actually, from memory, the last one marked their job as conjurer, too.

But let me ask you this: would you rather see one healer get an improvement in playstyle, even if it’s not yours, or hold them all back until they can all be improved? WHM is not my main by any stretch of the imagination, but I’d be overjoyed if they got a rework they were happy with. The reason I’m asking for a SCH rework is that it’s something that could be easily achieved in a patch (due to existing assets), whereas a WHM rework would probably be new expansion stuff. And they deserve better, too, but I’ll take what I can get.

[DenzelVilliers]

...

i'm not WHM, i'm Tank, PLD/GNB mostly, PLD for my favorite job and GNB for their Achievments that i'm farming, but i do play mainly all Tanks in general. When i play Healer i usually do WHM for Dungeons and SCHs for End-Game content, SCH actually is my favorite healer at this moment, i do play AST as well but it's totally random about my preferences to go ( dungeons or end-game content ).

You not even considerate if you got all those skills to your SCH back it should be nerfed, to not break their job in comparison to the others, if the point it's all about to be fun not to be OP Broken, so reducing all their skills damage potency by half wouldn't be a problem, but that possibility never came at your mind or many others here, so your Damage would remain basically the same that already is but more fun to play with more skills to cast, so their potency would be ajusted to fit ito new amount. But seems like be fun isn't the only point required here, be broken is the another one like SCH should be on the top for every point.

And i disagree that WHM changes was gradual, it was indeed gradual since 2.0 until now, but they lost more Skills, Traits and Effects than SCH does in SB, deleted and/or became Role Skills, they immediatly got huge changes in their kit there, ShB made some changes too, took away many skills ( not too many like SB did, because there wasn't many skills to do that, WHM already have the smaller Healer skill kit for that reason ). It was a point where their Healing and Damage was the worst, even AST consuming time drawing their cards and way less damage portency skills was doing more DPS than WHM in SB.

[DenzelVilliers]

But let me ask you this: would you rather see one healer get an improvement in playstyle, even if it’s not yours, or hold them all back until they can all be improved? WHM is not my main by any stretch of the imagination, but I’d be overjoyed if they got a rework they were happy with. The reason I’m asking for a SCH rework is that it’s something that could be easily achieved in a patch (due to existing assets), whereas a WHM rework would probably be new expansion stuff. And they deserve better, too, but I’ll take what I can get.

I already did that answer, i would prefer first fix the skill issues, after the playstyle. And the playstyle is something that can be requested in general, not individual, like i said all healers are in the same boat about their Damage Skill amount and rotations.

And i don't think SCHs changes are easily or WHM changes are something for the next Expansion. Some examples based on the game right now:

WHM:

- Fluid Aura: 160 Damage Potency ( 1 Lilly Required ), that way you don't have to overheal to build their gauge, a similar issue that SCH had until 5.05, people asked for Energy Drain back and they got, Energy Drain was deleted, Fluid Aura still there.
- Holy and AoE Heals like Medica and Medica II: 2 secs cast time, all healers got 2 secs for the cast while WHM still have 2.5.
- Temperance: 5% Damage Boost, that way WHM get some Utility at same time do not become better than AST on it ( 6% for Divination more ~7 individual cards doing 6%/8% each for the same amount of time ).******
- Presence of Mind AoE Trait: for some Utility as well.*******

****** ( Temperance OR Presence of Mind, don't need to be both, only one ).

That's more than enough to WHM to me, if WHM kit don't have Utility ( like now ) they should be on the top for Healing ( SCH at this moment ) and Damage ( WHM for now ), just like WAR, BLM and SAM usually are, no Utility = more potencies, at SB for example they was the worst for both points, do you agree?.

AST right now:

- Old Cards effect back ( except for Ewer/Spire ).
- Cellestial Opposition: Stun OR 500MP~1000MP regen just like Assize.

Do you aggre?.

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About bring some damage skills back, i do agree, i do want it too, but for all healers not only one especially AoE DoTs what was way handy in Big Pulls. Cleric Stance would be nice as well ( SB Version ).

[Billythepancake]

i'm not WHM, i'm Tank, PLD/GNB mostly, PLD for my favorite job and GNB for their Achievments that i'm farming, but i do play mainly all Tanks in general. When i play Healer i usually do WHM for Dungeons and SCHs for End-Game content, SCH actually is my favorite healer at this moment, i do play AST as well but it's totally random about my preferences to go ( dungeons or end-game content ).

You not even considerate if you got all those skills to your SCH back it should be nerfed, to not break their job in comparison to the others, if the point it's all about to be fun not to be OP Broken, so reducing all their skills damage potency by half wouldn't be a problem, but that possibility never came at your mind or many others here, so your Damage would remain basically the same that already is but more fun to play with more skills to cast, so their potency would be ajusted to fit ito new amount. But seems like be fun isn't the only point required here, be broken is the another one like SCH should be on the top for every point.

And i disagree that WHM changes was gradual, it was indeed gradual since 2.0 until now, but they lost more Skills, Traits and Effects than SCH does in SB, deleted and/or became Role Skills, they immediatly got huge changes in their kit there, ShB made some changes too, took away many skills ( not too many like SB did, because there wasn't many skills to do that, WHM already have the smaller Healer skill kit for that reason ). It was a point where their Healing and Damage was the worst, even AST consuming time drawing their cards and way less damage portency skills was doing more DPS than WHM in SB.

Many of us have stated that we'd be fine with potency reductions if it means we can get all of our abitlies back. I'd gladly have broil and bio cut to 50% or lower if it meant I could go back to juggling 3-5 dots, don't assume that we want our class to be broken strong, far far from it. I would love for SCH to actually have some competition, for it to not have a guaranteed spot, so I could prove my worth on it even more, rather than have teams pick me up because I play the most meta healer. I also want Selene back because I want a choice in what fairy I pick that goes beyond just comestic.

The entire reason WHM did less damage than the other 2 healers is SB is because of how their healing work, they rely way too much on GCDs, which has been a major issue since AST came into play. Because they rely on their GCDs so much, they lose a lot more DPS to AST and especially to SCH who almost never have to GCD heal. In a bubble, even back in SB, where no healer needed to heal, WHM was actually top healer DPS, even compared to SCH. What WHM needed then was maybe 1 or 2 more dps abilities to play around with, and some more healing oGCDs so they wouldn't be left in the dust. This is where liliies should have stepped in, but they didn't help with anything. While they're better in ShB, they're still a farcry of what WHM actually needs, maybe instead of complaining about "SCHs just want to be busted strong" focus on what we could do to bump up all healers. Nobody here wants any healer to be left behind, we just brought up SCH because that's what we play, and I can talk about SCH issues more because it is the class I have the most time in, go figure.

[DenzelVilliers]

...

I'm not pressuming anything, some people are asking for buffs, some buffs that's going to break the job ( days ago someone did a wish list request for SCH skills to be applied that i became perplexed about it ), but there's people like you asking for skills and nerfs if necessary to be balanced in exchange for more options ( and i've seen you pointing that more than once ), not everyone is like you, in this thread and many others.