Reasonable buff to war

[Satarn]

I was initially under the impression that WAR didn't benefit from raid buffs as much as the other tanks, but having kept an eye on it for the last few weeks - indeed as a WAR I get more from the group than my PLD does. Maybe it's our particular comp (DRG/MNK/RDM/DNC), but I get around 10% more damage from raid buffs than my PLD does..

It's 100% your comp. WAR benefits less from crit/dh raid buffs but more from flat damage ones, because of being so bursty. It's already been the case since 4.2 IR change and matters even more now with Inner Chaos. This causes the issue where WAR's pdps can vary greatly depending on comp - you'll do great damage with nin, mnk, rdm, dnc, ast, but do crap in comparison if you get drg, brd, sch, whm and 2 pure dps.

[Izsha]

Brotherhood is a wars best friend. Straight damage buff on same timer as IR with enough time to land some chaos in it as well. When more than 40% of our damage can fit in brotherhood windows, yes, you get massive amounts or raid buff damage. Remove that mnk and you will fall flat on your face.

The large crit rate buffs just do basically jack. But brother/TA are massive. Its bot thay raid buffs dont help, its that we are very polarized to specific raid buffs in a time when se is conciously reducing the focus on specific team comp synergy, war has strong specific job synergy.

[whiskeybravo]

And what are your other CDs doing? All three bosses barely do any auto attack damage. While that doesn't make Holmgang crap—nor did I imply it ever was—it does make it less impactful. What made Holmgang stand out is how many busters you could shrug off. That isn't to say it should have stayed that way. Frankly, it was too good in fights like O8S and O12S. But my point is you can't point to it and say how much of an advantage Warrior has now.

Not complaining. I'm pointing out Warrior is the only tank that requires a second CD when the others don't. While Vengeance lines up for the first Stonecrusher, it isn't always up for each one you take. And frankly, it's better used for the auto attacks in lieu of sitting on it afterwards.

The other tanks can't get both of those Megaliths because they are exactly 4 mins apart. That frees up CDs to be used elsewhere for both tanks. I spread out my CDs in the opener and we swap at geocrush until Car mechanic, then they're back up for the 2nd stonecrushers which we split. Nothing is wasted in that regard. If it's really that big of a deal then have your other tank take the first hit and Voke to take the 2nd and 3rd hits with Holmgang. There ya go, no longer need 2 CDs for Stonecrusher.

Besides, the reason they changed Holmgang is because it had a significant advantage which contributed to the tank imbalance. So it's a little disingenuous to now say "look WAR doesn't have the advantage anymore".. Yea, that was the point.. But there remain a few spots where it can be advantageous, and we don't know what future fights are going to look like yet either.

Brotherhood is a wars best friend. Straight damage buff on same timer as IR with enough time to land some chaos in it as well. When more than 40% of our damage can fit in brotherhood windows, yes, you get massive amounts or raid buff damage. Remove that mnk and you will fall flat on your face.

The large crit rate buffs just do basically jack. But brother/TA are massive. Its bot thay raid buffs dont help, its that we are very polarized to specific raid buffs in a time when se is conciously reducing the focus on specific team comp synergy, war has strong specific job synergy.

Yea it's mostly Brotherhood and Embolden. I get 50-60 more from those than the PLD, but he gets 30-40 more from Chain and Litany.

[ZaqueXIII]

Dunno if its been said or not but id like to see the warrior have 2 circle AOEs for the combo, I imagine something like a lvl 60 trait that makes mythril tempest our first AOE and then steel cyclone animation is our follow up.(obviously they would have to be tuned for damage) I think its awkward to have to rotate mobs during my aoe combo potentially ruining dps positionals and making it harder to get value from nascent flash without also investing infuriates or inner release

[Izsha]

The other tanks can't get both of those Megaliths because they are exactly 4 mins apart. That frees up CDs to be used elsewhere for both tanks. I spread out my CDs in the opener and we swap at geocrush until Car mechanic, then they're back up for the 2nd stonecrushers which we split. Nothing is wasted in that regard. If it's really that big of a deal then have your other tank take the first hit and Voke to take the 2nd and 3rd hits with Holmgang. There ya go, no longer need 2 CDs for Stonecrusher.

Besides, the reason they changed Holmgang is because it had a significant advantage which contributed to the tank imbalance. So it's a little disingenuous to now say "look WAR doesn't have the advantage anymore".. Yea, that was the point.. But there remain a few spots where it can be advantageous, and we don't know what future fights are going to look like yet either.



Yea it's mostly Brotherhood and Embolden. I get 50-60 more from those than the PLD, but he gets 30-40 more from Chain and Litany.

Yeah this has been my experience. My raid static havent had a mnk for all if stirmblood and ran drg and sch forever. It was pretty depressing how dependant we are on 1 jobs raid buffs while everyone else just kinda yolos with any comp and is fine. I finally have a mnk now, but lost the ninja, but i just wish se would lay off the force crit mechanic so we can be as flexible with raid buffs as everyone else. Especially since job dependant synergies were expressly on the chopping block for shadowbringers but they forgot about war requiring mnk to be good.

[Quri]

Inner chaos and inner cyclone should have their old abilities tied to them. Inner Chaos with 20% dog reduction and heal, Inner Cyclone with the heal per hit. Vengeance gets a slight damage boost and duration is 15 seconds.
Tanks 30% dig reduction skills should all be 15 seconds,and they should do different things also. DRK, mana regen per hit, 200 mp. PLD path gauge regen per hit and GNB 10% shield.

[NyneSwordz]

Dunno if its been said or not but id like to see the warrior have 2 circle AOEs for the combo, I imagine something like a lvl 60 trait that makes mythril tempest our first AOE and then steel cyclone animation is our follow up.(obviously they would have to be tuned for damage) I think its awkward to have to rotate mobs during my aoe combo potentially ruining dps positionals and making it harder to get value from nascent flash without also investing infuriates or inner release

Yeah... moving around to get overpower to hit everything sucks. Would be okay if you only had to do it once, but mobs move around as things die or as you move to avoid aoe, and having to reposition them to overpower several times a fight is kinda annoying. Should just both be 360 aoe at this point.

[whiskeybravo]

Yeah this has been my experience. My raid static havent had a mnk for all if stirmblood and ran drg and sch forever. It was pretty depressing how dependant we are on 1 jobs raid buffs while everyone else just kinda yolos with any comp and is fine. I finally have a mnk now, but lost the ninja, but i just wish se would lay off the force crit mechanic so we can be as flexible with raid buffs as everyone else. Especially since job dependant synergies were expressly on the chopping block for shadowbringers but they forgot about war requiring mnk to be good.

I don't disagree, I just try to see it from both sides. The auto CDH is a relief on one hand because then you aren't dependent on any comp, on the other hand it limits our gains from some buffs while making others more attractive. My main issue is that it feels like having the CDH feature limited growth we could've otherwise had in it's place.

[Izsha]

I don't disagree, I just try to see it from both sides. The auto CDH is a relief on one hand because then you aren't dependent on any comp, on the other hand it limits our gains from some buffs while making others more attractive. My main issue is that it feels like having the CDH feature limited growth we could've otherwise had in it's place.

I dont really see it as a benefit in anyway. It just polarizes the job. In an potluck comp, war either hits it big with a ninja and mnk, and astro, or looses out with drg, sch, dnc, etc crit buffs. Every other job just kinda is happy with anything. Its the old days of ranged NEEDING a drg to be good. Sure it averages out as some partues have drgs, some dont, but it is very polarized which is the very thing SE is trying to remove by their own admission.

Its just stupid. Also salty because they took the best iteration of war thay existed (4.1) with very rewarding gameplay and dumbed it down into the cleave machine. Then doubled down in ShB with inner chaos to even further reduce the benefit of crit buffs. I mean, wars opener is basically 20 seconds (8 gcds) of 100% crit/dh spam. You know when all those yummy crit buffs are applied? For 20 seconds of that 20 sec window. Maybe you will get a heavy swing in on the end. Whooo..... Its just so damn frustrating to see even more problems created by this terrible design decision still creeping around years after a frustrating rework all because xeno started a QQ train about 'feels bad to have no crits during zerk'. You know what feels bad? Getting no benefit from the majority of raid buffs.

[NyneSwordz]

I dont really see it as a benefit in anyway. It just polarizes the job. In an potluck comp, war either hits it big with a ninja and mnk, and astro, or looses out with drg, sch, dnc, etc crit buffs. Every other job just kinda is happy with anything. Its the old days of ranged NEEDING a drg to be good. Sure it averages out as some partues have drgs, some dont, but it is very polarized which is the very thing SE is trying to remove by their own admission.

Its just stupid. Also salty because they took the best iteration of war thay existed (4.1) with very rewarding gameplay and dumbed it down into the cleave machine. Then doubled down in ShB with inner chaos to even further reduce the benefit of crit buffs. I mean, wars opener is basically 20 seconds (8 gcds) of 100% crit/dh spam. You know when all those yummy crit buffs are applied? For 20 seconds of that 20 sec window. Maybe you will get a heavy swing in on the end. Whooo..... Its just so damn frustrating to see even more problems created by this terrible design decision still creeping around years after a frustrating rework all because xeno started a QQ train about 'feels bad to have no crits during zerk'. You know what feels bad? Getting no benefit from the majority of raid buffs.

I'm not a fan of inner chaos either. It effectively lengethens the crit/spam opening as you mentioned and in addition to making some raid buffs not benefit wars, it has other issues too.

I know this is a tangent, but because of in er chaos and the way it works, in pvp wars almost have no chance really to use their combo. This makes the self healing off path completely useless. And in situations where there are no party members near by for nascent flash, the war effectively has no self sustain.

Going from havibg godly self sustain in pvp to having the worst self sustain of any tank is terrible.

Not to mention that its not fun having a burst window when that "window" means practically "all the time."

I totally agree that crit spamming window mechanic was kinda cool, but man does it cause some problems in several different areas of the game....

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