Reasonable buff to war

[BarretOblivion]

I don't mind this at all. Giving WAR some more self heal is not really a big deal to me at all. Nascent only being a 10% damage reduction as well warrants some more healing for the target too.



I agree with this wholeheartedly. The entire point of so many of the ShB tank changes was to make all tanks equally (or near equally) viable at both the MT and OT roles. Vengeance is the only tank ability in the game that rewards the player with damage for being attacked. (TBN is close, but you can use it on other targets and it is only DPS neutral when it breaks, so I don't consider it here) It honestly feels like this ability just fell through the cracks and should have been changed along with everything else.



I do agree that it is pretty boring to play. The removal of stance dancing really took a lot of the complexity of the job away. I would be fine with adding some more oGCD skills, a DoT, or really anything else to add a bit more to the job. See below for my thoughts on secondary stats between classes.




I have to disagree with you on this point. I do like to see all the big numbers during my IR window and the only way to remove the different effect that secondary stats have on the job would be to rework this mechanic completely. It is a bummer that you can't reuse the same gear as the other tanks, but this is a small price to pay for maintaining class identity.

Again, that's why I stated opinion and personal request. I just wonder that because of how WAR is right now, its also limiting the chances of them giving them new skills at all.

[Tex_Mex]

Again, that's why I stated opinion and personal request. I just wonder that because of how WAR is right now, its also limiting the chances of them giving them new skills at all.

That's certainly a part of, but I wouldn't worry to much. WAR has been one of the developer's favorite children for a long time. I will not be surprised if it gets a lot of love in the next few months.

[Nedkel]

So to follow up on the previous post what buffs does WAR need?
1) Nascent flash buff. Give it 75% of total healing you do to yourself shared with your target instead of 50% and increase the time on it so you can fit one more GCD in it.
2) Remove the potency on vengeance and slightly buff other skills so you are basically 'moving' that potency so it doesn't feel bad when WAR isn't MTing.
3) WAR needs improvements to the flow of the job. The job feels like crap to play when IR is on cooldown while all other tank jobs outside of their "burst phases" still having things to manage and do. WAR does not besides trying to hold on fell cleaves for raid buffs or IC for raid buffs. WAR doesn't scale well with DRG and BRD buffs because of the DH/CRIT guarenteed so if you are running them WAR falls behind all other tanks.

(Personal request)
Rework the DH/CRIT identity of the job. I don't like it and it makes melding WAR akward when all other tanks meld in one way (Skill speed requirements is the exception) but WAR has to be melded differently. DH? You don't do that on WAR and right now DH is the best to meld in all other tanks until the end of this tier with BiS because there is so much crit on them. It makes swapping between tank jobs expensive for an unnessesary reason.

So in TL : DR
Make tanks even more copy-paste to each other than they are right now, because of "balance" in literally one raid that will be meaningful in a 3-6 months time.

You just asking them to make war the same as other tanks, remove that, change this so it will play the same as X, oh wait have we just made all 4 tanks playing the same?
no thanks.

[BarretOblivion]

So in TL : DR
Make tanks even more copy-paste to each other than they are right now, because of "balance" in literally one raid that will be meaningful in a 3-6 months time.

You just asking them to make war the same as other tanks, remove that, change this so it will play the same as X, oh wait have we just made all 4 tanks playing the same?
no thanks.

Even in SB both DRK and PLD melded normally while WAR became an exception. Melding doesn't make all tanks the same. DRK became another WAR and I would perfer the removal of DH/CRIT to properly balance WAR giving them more skills to use.

[LuceliaUltima]

A simple way to fix melding issues would be to actually meld by jobs but not by gears like glamour works kinda

[Shurrikhan]

Onslaught:

• GNB loses 80 potency for using Rough Divide charges outside of No Mercy, and a further 105 or so for not using them during raid buffs atop that. (80-185)
• PLD loses 100 potency for using Intervene charges outside of Fight or Flight, and a further 110 or so for not using them during raid buffs atop that. (100-210)
• DRK loses ~55 potency for using Plunge charges outside of Trick Attack/Battle Litany/Chain Strategem/Battle Voice and nothing without raid (de)buffs. (0-55) I personally have little issue with this advantage as DRK is the OG gap-closer tank and its ShB iteration is built around this kind of flexibility.
• Onslaught does 5 potency per gauge while Fell Cleave does 590 but has the further cost of a GCD, for which Warrior averages 293.33 potency with a further 30 Beast Gauge gain (worth, then, around a further 180 potency or 60 ppgcd for a true total of 370.33 ppgcd), and advantage of 5 seconds trim from Infuriate, worth 8.3% of the bonus of Inner Chaos over ppgcd for ~46 potency. Fell Cleave thus deals about a nominal 300 bonus potency per gcd or an effective 265 bonus potency per 50 Beast Gauge, about a .3 potency per gauge advantage or about a 6% increase in efficiency... That's the second best efficiency for free use behind DRK, who uses it entirely for free. Increasing it to even 110 potency would already bring it faintly ahead of Fell Cleave. It just lacks for the double-dash functionality, since it would otherwise still go to waste as mobility, being plugged instead into Inner Release for a further free 67 potency per minute. If we could somehow make the second charge of Onslaught not be affected by IR, I could go for having a second charge, but that's about it.

Storm Eye duration:

• Frankly, the duration buff on Jinpu/Shifu was dull enough on SAM in the time it took to have any real reason or need for the buff (SkS devaluation, TG, longer Meikyo duration, and--more subtly--one's inability to trim Sen now that Hagakure is a trap) that it's quite turned me off to the idea. I'd honestly rather keep Storm's Eye duration about where it is. I'll gladly listen to other alternatives where they might find ways to decrease the initial ramp-up time necessary, however. Heck, you could trade out Onslaught potency outright for an Attack Speed increase on your next couple GCDs. At an average potency of, say, ~400 ppgcd, it'd only take a 12.5% Attack Speed buff to return Onslaught's potency value. That said, I doubt I'd like the impact that would have on the IR window, where, especially paired with raid buffs, such an advantage would be badly overpowered.

Vengeance:

• We're not really lacking for AoE damage, I thought? That's about the only place this would be significant. I'd argue WAR needs little if any potency buffs in single-target, either, and even if it did I'd sooner take the adjustment through other abilities.

Inner Chaos:

• Does the super nuke pairable with Nascent Flash for a nuke-heal really need a buff? I'd have to argue not...

[aleios_dvs]

Paladins have a sword, shield AND magic that works with them.
This argument about having the biggest weapon around doesn't justify you being the biggest damage dealer.

It's just like D&D right now - Paladin dishes out the most, while the Barbarian literally is unkillable while enraged.

And the Warrior is the embodiment of that. They are simply too angry to die.

I don't fully accept this counter argument. I think the identity of being a zerker certainly justifies it. Holy hell our goddamn eyes glow.
My justification in my eyes still stands. D&D does it? Magic that works with them? What does that even mean?

Too angry to die? Exactly. We're nutcases. Axe swinging skull crushing psychopaths. God even the sound design screams FUCKING KILL. Kinda shits all over the class identity when the piddly little peasant with this cricket bat of a sword does more damage.
It's a subjective thing to be sure. But goddamn son. I need me some numbers dammit. You don't see PLD and DRK players having skull goblets to drink the blood of their enemies from. Meanwhile the GNB is too busy trying to figure out if he should be stabbing or shooting someone.

Since we're going with analogies. A PLD is like a human from star trek. Uses brain. A WAR is like a Klingon. Uses KILL.
I think it would make sense for PLD to contain a wider damage mitigation toolset and the WAR having one based on KILL. Like how it was since forever. It's just the the poor PLD got screwed the hell over for so many expacs where it was pure suckage. Let's just like not do that again and we good.

I don't see what the actual problem with this is. But hey I'll be reasonable. Give me my goddamn skills back PLEASE. Give me deliverance back. Give me BB combo. Anything to make the rotation less like PLD was from 2.0-4.0. 1-2-3 boring me. The homogenization craze that SE seem to be on has made this expac sooooo incredibly boring.

[millktea]

Vengeance potency should be added to WAR's abilities. If it adds about 165-220 potency per two minutes, add some potency to eye and path to make up for that.

At 200 potency Onslaught does more DPS than a fell cleave. Fell cleave is a 590 potency move at 50 gauge and 3 onslaughts is 60 gauge at 600 potency. However, Fell cleave costs a GCD and onslaught does not. This puts Onslaught at a potency gain over fell cleave.

WAR really doesn't need potency buffs. Just QoL buffs. DRK needs potency buffs if anything.

if you made onslaught do more damage, then it would be a dps loss if you did not use it. it being low makes the gapcloser essentially for free, which gives warrior far more mobility than the other tanks. buff upheaval and add more ogcds. warrior needs at least ONE MORE. if anything, that is what IC should have been.

warrior needs both. but it also needs potency nerfs (Fell Cleave and possibly Inner Chaos as well).

war needs animation buffs. Do not call it a new ability and not even provide it with a unique animation. they need to buff Holmgang by removing the bind to the enemy.

Storm eye seems fine buff but that seems more like a quality of life change than a buff. Vengeance would just force WAR to be MT as it kinda already does with its damage tied to it, if you have a WAR OT you are losing damage. Inner chaos doesn't come up enough for this to be a signifcant buff to their numbers so it wouldn't be much of a change.
Making onslaught better would be nice, but how the job flows you don't onslaught unless you have to, during IR, or if you somehow need to dump beast gauge. Onslaught would need to be more of a DPS gain than Fell cleave for players to use it. Upheavel works because its a signicantly higher scaling with beast guage and damage vs fell cleave.

you can just swap. you have provoke and shirk. simple solution.

They are not going to buff damage of any of the tanks, just some deffensive stuff.
It is their statement from the live letter.

SE says a lot of things. That doesn't mean they actually stay true to their word or follow what they say. Before the current expac came out, they acknowledged that warrior is the MT and that they wanted to make it so there were two MTs and two OTs, and look what happened? a new tank was a MISTAKE.

[Lyth]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too. The only difference is that it has gone from being boring and mandatory, to being boring and optional. And that, my friends, is a true quality of life improvement.

[ForteNightshade]

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

WAR hasn't really changed that much since Stormblood. If you're finding it boring now, then it almost certainly was boring then, too. The only difference is that it has gone from being boring and mandatory, to being boring and optional. And that, my friends, is a true quality of life improvement.

Except it isn't equality. Warrior is straight up inferior to the other three tanks, albeit only slightly. It has zero buff synergy due to guaranteed Direct Hi Crits, it has a weaker overall defensive kit than Paladin and flirts with being dead last in DPS. Add to that Onslaught abruptly became the worst gap closer (baring its range) and Storm's Eye, and it's hard to call Warrior being equal.