The surge thread

[Krausus]

Whack-a-buff, that's a good one!

I would also agree that as is the buff is very worthwhile, but at the same time irritating and uninteresting to maintain. You could get the same effect on your TP pool more or less by doing something like:

Making the skill a toggle (with a 500TP cost to toggle it on).
While the skill is on, it drains 500tp at a set interval (pick whatever works between 30 seconds and a minute). Each time it drains 500tp, it goes up a level of surge, to a max of III (it just consumes TP after that point).
The skill turns off when you lack the TP to maintain it.
The skill recast time remains the same.

Right now, I do my best to keep it up. But the ability has a tendency to fall off at the worst times while I'm focusing on something else, like helping get a mob off one of our mages, lining up a combo etc. I'd hate to see how much coordinating Regimens/Skillchains will add to this.

Letting the skill automate along the lines I added there will let me focus on fighting and helping my party, while still carrying the relevant TP and time-to-build-up costs for making use of Surge. I'd still need to make the important gameplay choices such as when it needs to be turned on and off, if I maintain it out of a fight with Invigorate etc.

Or they could make it like PGL Fist buffs, but instead of mp a certain amount to tp is drained per hit like say every hit you do with the buff active consumes 25-50 TP

[Phenidate]

Or they could make it like PGL Fist buffs, but instead of mp a certain amount to tp is drained per hit like say every hit you do with the buff active consumes 25-50 TP

Only issue the devs might have with that is it would be just a straight duplication of their mechanic but with attack damage or a self heal rather than elemental effects.

Granted, the devs also said they can't make protect last 30 minutes because then it would be too powerful.. And that was before 1.19

[Krausus]

Only issue the devs might have with that is it would be just a straight duplication of their mechanic but with attack damage or a self heal rather than elemental effects.

Granted, the devs also said they can't make protect last 30 minutes because then it would be too powerful.. And that was before 1.19

actually yeah come to think of it, it wouldn't be a good Idea because then doomspike and chaos thrust would remove the buff every time we use those WS's

[Phenidate]

actually yeah come to think of it, it wouldn't be a good Idea because then doomspike and chaos thrust would remove the buff every time we use those WS's

Well, we could still have a timer on the buff so we know how long till it next needs 500tp maybe?

[Fated]

Granted, the devs also said they can't make protect last 30 minutes because then it would be too powerful.. And that was before 1.19

Good one, SE, I could see how having a 30 minute Protect would break the gameplay... -_-

[Rogue]

for high ranking end game mobs the surges are less than useless..

The extra combo every 1-2 mintues you get by having an extra 1k TP from NOT using power surge actually does more damage than keeping power surge stacked,

and that extra combo also builds more TP.

and you dont have any hassle

so i dont use surges

I guess you could use invigorate and get 3x before the fight starts to buff your initial combo, but imo that being pretty anal.

[GreyJorildyn]

I think the "idea" for how the surges are currently implemented is decent, but it does become a hassle when you incorporate all the things Lancer can currently do.

Let me present my argument in the framework of the default UI setup. For those unfamiliar, buffs are top-center, action/TP bars bottom-center. The user log is positioned in the lower-left of the screen. It is also worth noting, albeit obvious, that mobs are dead center on the screen. Other relevant information: Surge lasts 60s, recast is 30s, requires 500 TP (getting messier already, eh?). So here I go.

Firstly, you have to keep an eye on your TP generated (bottom-center) and the recast timer is either on your main bar (visible) or somewhere you have to scroll to (or a macro for those who utilize them and have a /recast line -- now you have to look at your log too!).

You've accumulated enough TP to use a surge and you pop it (eyes are at lower bottom of screen). Now you're whacking the mob and going to use weapon skills. You check your positioning to the mob (eyes on center of screen), and setup your positions as you go through the combo (eyes still on center of screen). Now, just like checking your mirrors in a car, your eyes must dart up to the top of the screen to check the timer on the surge, then back down to the bottom to check TP to see if you can use surge again. Ah, but you need check the recast on the surge too, so eyes go up a little farther (or you smack your macro to see the recast in log -- eyes dart to lower-left log position).

So your eyes essentially do this:
Look down
Look up a bit (macro: lower-left instead)
Look center
Move into position of mob (gotta track the mob spinning!)
Look up
Look down
Look up a bit (macro: lower-left instead)
(at this point, there should be a warning when you equip a polearm that playing this class may induce seizures.)

Keep in mind that the game is supposed to be designed around the default UI being the "best fit" position for all classes. Lancers have the most complicated combos currently, plus the need to maintain a buff they can use every 30s to refresh a buff that lasts 60s. Let's not even mentioned that there is no sustained visible cue that denotes the power of your surge on-screen; that information is only delivered to you upon using the surge. On top of that, invigorate cooldown needs to be maintained, as do all the usual attack buffs for weapon skills. The way surges are currently implement within the current UI make them very difficult to keep track of. Even as someone who considers himself a skilled player and solos 99% of the time in game on various classes, I find Lancer to be a real hassle.

I've even tried to compact the UI into a small space so I can play Lancer "more effectively", but then everything looks all cluttered. It's problems like this that created plugins for the client in XI, and is going to encourage people to do the same when the 2.0 client hits, unless of course they do something about the currently awful way to track buffs/debuffs while performing all your typical job duties, be it in a party or solo.

Right now I feel Lancer is one of the more powerful classes, but it suffers from an overly complicated (or perhaps higher learning curve) than most of the other (DPS) classes. Sure you could make this buff last longer, but the reality of it is they are trying to make gameplay revolve in a 3-5 minute cycle to give the illusion of quickened game pace, and you see that pretty much across the board with the interaction between recast timers, mp costs, mp regen, buff duration and other battle elements. It does not enhance gameplay to do this. I felt the surges were find as they were previously implemented, which was in more of a "stance" typology. I'd like to see that come back honestly, but jobs are gonna be the end all soon and so this may all fall by the wayside in the re-envisioning of the game.

[Fated]

Life Surge is a lot less hassle to use now, Power Surge still blows.

[Rufus_Zelbringer]

I think the "idea" for how the surges are currently implemented is decent, but it does become a hassle when you incorporate all the things Lancer can currently do.

Let me present my argument in the framework of the default UI setup. For those unfamiliar, buffs are top-center, action/TP bars bottom-center. The user log is positioned in the lower-left of the screen. It is also worth noting, albeit obvious, that mobs are dead center on the screen. Other relevant information: Surge lasts 60s, recast is 30s, requires 500 TP (getting messier already, eh?). So here I go.

Firstly, you have to keep an eye on your TP generated (bottom-center) and the recast timer is either on your main bar (visible) or somewhere you have to scroll to (or a macro for those who utilize them and have a /recast line -- now you have to look at your log too!).

You've accumulated enough TP to use a surge and you pop it (eyes are at lower bottom of screen). Now you're whacking the mob and going to use weapon skills. You check your positioning to the mob (eyes on center of screen), and setup your positions as you go through the combo (eyes still on center of screen). Now, just like checking your mirrors in a car, your eyes must dart up to the top of the screen to check the timer on the surge, then back down to the bottom to check TP to see if you can use surge again. Ah, but you need check the recast on the surge too, so eyes go up a little farther (or you smack your macro to see the recast in log -- eyes dart to lower-left log position).

So your eyes essentially do this:
Look down
Look up a bit (macro: lower-left instead)
Look center
Move into position of mob (gotta track the mob spinning!)
Look up
Look down
Look up a bit (macro: lower-left instead)
(at this point, there should be a warning when you equip a polearm that playing this class may induce seizures.)

Keep in mind that the game is supposed to be designed around the default UI being the "best fit" position for all classes. Lancers have the most complicated combos currently, plus the need to maintain a buff they can use every 30s to refresh a buff that lasts 60s. Let's not even mentioned that there is no sustained visible cue that denotes the power of your surge on-screen; that information is only delivered to you upon using the surge. On top of that, invigorate cooldown needs to be maintained, as do all the usual attack buffs for weapon skills. The way surges are currently implement within the current UI make them very difficult to keep track of. Even as someone who considers himself a skilled player and solos 99% of the time in game on various classes, I find Lancer to be a real hassle.

I've even tried to compact the UI into a small space so I can play Lancer "more effectively", but then everything looks all cluttered. It's problems like this that created plugins for the client in XI, and is going to encourage people to do the same when the 2.0 client hits, unless of course they do something about the currently awful way to track buffs/debuffs while performing all your typical job duties, be it in a party or solo.

Right now I feel Lancer is one of the more powerful classes, but it suffers from an overly complicated (or perhaps higher learning curve) than most of the other (DPS) classes. Sure you could make this buff last longer, but the reality of it is they are trying to make gameplay revolve in a 3-5 minute cycle to give the illusion of quickened game pace, and you see that pretty much across the board with the interaction between recast timers, mp costs, mp regen, buff duration and other battle elements. It does not enhance gameplay to do this. I felt the surges were find as they were previously implemented, which was in more of a "stance" typology. I'd like to see that come back honestly, but jobs are gonna be the end all soon and so this may all fall by the wayside in the re-envisioning of the game.

This is all fine and true, but it can simply be overcome with the use of macros. Macroing your surges makes using them so much easier. Add to that you can add a /recast to the macro, which makes monitoring and maintaining your surges that much easier.

/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/recast "Power Surge"

Or if you want to get really lazy you can:

/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/ac "Power Surge"<me>
/wait 30
/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/recast "Power Surge"
/

Now you only have to hit 1 button every 1 1/2 minutes

[Rogue]

This is all fine and true, but it can simply be overcome with the use of macros. Macroing your surges makes using them so much easier. Add to that you can add a /recast to the macro, which makes monitoring and maintaining your surges that much easier.

/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/recast "Power Surge"

Or if you want to get really lazy you can:

/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/ac "Power Surge"<me>
/wait 30
/ac "Power Surge" <me>
/wait 30
/recast "Power Surge"
/

Now you only have to hit 1 button every 1 1/2 minutes

I have tried this and it doesnt work,

it seems like if i press another macro while your macro is on /wait it cancels the rest of the macro.