So after waiting for about 2 weeks to see the consequence of homogenization

[MaelleRiou]

The fact that you have so little knowledge of the job you hate and mislead every single point I have already said mean you are trolling. What happen right now is people like you only want your DPS to be the most DPS and screw other unique jobs like nin,rdm,smn, and bard, kill all other non-direct dps skills so that your dps ditcher job get the spotlight.

all combos are gone, which you ignored my point completely, which I already stated that if every job has combos interactions one way or another, this wouldn't have happened. And you would spiral down the game where one job gets all the utilities and there rest of that role would only do just press buttons do damage.

It's not just range, your mentality screw other 5 dps jobs and even healer like AST. Had there been more combos other than Bard+Drg or asking for MCH to have more combos with raid jobs, there would be no need to shit on other jobs like what you are doing. You are just not creative and short sighted and lazy.

Did I ever say Bard should have more buff than DNC? no. You just accuse me of oh, DNC should have useless buffs and all the good one to Bard.

You don't even know how buffs/debuffs/utiltiies in Ragnarok works. Let me guess, you only play like WoW for mmo?

Have you ever considered MCH to have more interactions with other jobs? No, because you only want "me me me me me DPS".

You should go read all the jobs abilities in Ragnarok. If you ever play an actual RPG that is, you wouldn't be so brain dead.

Bard players like fine, you want more DPS, go ahead get more DPS for MCH. But then you people come and say, fuck bard utilities, how dare you like singing with effect. lol
Pathetic.

Did you ever think
1) DNC now has all the offense buff and heals, Bard should maybe small party buff/debuff hybrid or just pure utility/defense supports? No.
2) Should MCH has piearcing/slashing/blunt combo with other jobs? No.

So much potential variety, but all you can think of is "nope, no interactions among jobs in RPG". In a god damn RPG.

Machinist did have interactions with other jobs in Stormblood. You know what happened? Raid groups still took bards over machinists. The only time machinists were brought into raids was when the raid was doing a 2 physical ranged DPS and no casters.

Bards brought too much utility to raids that they were just straight up mandatory. Did Square-Enix take too much away? Maybe. Did they need to take some away? Absolutely.

It went from lauded best designed job to "oh my god ruined" because of...losing a non interactive passive buff and a clunky as hell cast bar.

Exactly. Bard plays basically the same now as it did in Stormbringers.

[TcomJ]

For the Bard outcry, while I agree it should have more of a support focus given its FF identity, it barely lost anything in the transition to Shadowbringers. It went from lauded best designed job to "oh my god ruined" because of...losing a non interactive passive buff and a clunky as hell cast bar. That's it. If its not supportive enough now let's not pretend it was in SB either.

And sticking with the bard example it has perhaps the most unique, least homogenised DPS gameplay. It's burst cycle is every 80s, continual ogcd procs on a priority system different from Dancer, apex "money shot" built up exclusively from procs. No other job feels like it, it's the antithesis of homogenisation, unless you degrade the definition of it to "does damage, has procs".

The imbalance, which as ever with xiv isn't even that imbalanced, has nothing to do with homogenisation (I could see a case for tanks being homogenised but they're still tightly balanced), if ninja has a high "utility tax" but dragoon doesn't. Balance aside every DPS feels very different

For us, all we do now mostly are DPS and occasionally buff on DH which barely does anything. You only look at DPS numbers and for god sake. Barely any bard mains cry about we want more DPS so we want to lose all support and utilities...unless well it's MCH who wants bow and arrow.

The only clunky thing I feel is the SB trabadour and that's it.

The reason it was lauded best designed job, nobody realize in the job showcase how much interaction we lost even FR. Even JP once realized what's going on give the same concern.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...A6%81%E6%9C%9B

Least homogenized DPS gameplay, yah right, less unique personalized abilities turning everything into DPS abilities = least homogenized. Sure. What you are just saying "oh different rotations are enough to make job feels different". wow.

How could you say it wasn't enough in SB? the crit buffs, the FR, the Trabadour, the short cooldown Minne, even refresh and invigorate and Palisade shared with MCH.

And nobody like Apex Arrow, it's another gimmicky DPS ability.

You guys can advocate MCH to have as high DPS as SAM, DRG, BLM for all I care. Go ahead.

No bard has ever ask MCH to do less dmg.

[TcomJ]

Machinist did have interactions with other jobs in Stormblood. You know what happened? Raid groups still took bards over machinists. The only time machinists were brought into raids was when the raid was doing a 2 physical ranged DPS and no casters.

Bards brought too much utility to raids that they were just straight up mandatory. Did Square-Enix take too much away? Maybe. Did they need to take some away? Absolutely.




Exactly. Bard plays basically the same now as it did in Stormbringers.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...A6%81%E6%9C%9B

go tell them that then, I dare you.
Were you guys locked out of raid in SB like RDM/NIN pug currently? no.

[MaelleRiou]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...A6%81%E6%9C%9B

go tell them that then, I dare you.
Were you guys locked out of raid in SB like RDM/NIN pug currently? no.

Yes? The standard raid comp used Bard, not Machinist. Aside for the rare occasions when a group wanted to run 2 physical ranged instead of a magical ranged.

Red Mage's damage is barely below Summoner at the moment. The problem with casters is largely due to Black Mage being overpowered and Raise having little value in raid fights with tight DPS requirements.

Ninja needs buffs, but it also doesn't need to be at the completely mandatory level it was in Stormblood. Melee balance is the worst of all 3 DPS roles at the moment.

[Duelle]

So... Bard had single-ally-shared buffs that would be mutually exclusive to the identity of Dancer?

Dancer getting significant support in no way means that Bard had to lose its own and end up as a 'Machinist w/ less pDPS in exchange for Battle Voice'.

I was surprised when I saw the song buffs BRD got with SB were taken away this expansion. If I were to hazard a guess, someone on the dev team wanted to avoid raids feeling forced to have both DNC and BRD. I don't think that would have been utterly broken (unless their internal tests were showing a DPS partnered with DNC + BRD's 2% critical hit song bonuses and Foe's debuff somehow yielding insane DPS), but it's the only explanation I can come up with.

[TcomJ]

Yes? The standard raid comp used Bard, not Machinist. Aside for the rare occasions when a group wanted to run 2 physical ranged instead of a magical ranged.

Red Mage's damage is barely below Summoner at the moment. The problem with casters is largely due to Black Mage being overpowered and Raise having little value in raid fights with tight DPS requirements.

Ninja needs buffs, but it also doesn't need to be at the completely mandatory level it was in Stormblood. Melee balance is the worst of all 3 DPS roles at the moment.

That's not remotely true. If it's NA, the reason MCH is lockout was purely latency issue. Even Rinchan Nau plays MCH and absolutely fine with it. Nobody locks MCH out in SB in Asia like they do now with RDM/NIN on pug PF slot right now everywhere in the world.

So you guys are basically using exclusive problem in a region to screw even JP bard playerbase. Oh and why BLM/MNk are blatantly OP? MOAR DMG and screw all utility classes. MUH DPS! WAHHH

But no worries, SE listens to JP players more anyway.

[MaelleRiou]

That's not remotely true. If it's NA, the reason MCH is lockout was purely latency issue. Even Rinchan Nau plays MCH and absolutely fine with it. Nobody locks MCH out in SB in Asia like they do now with RDM/NIN on pug PF slot right now everywhere in the world.

So you guys are basically using exclusive problem in a region to screw even JP bard playerbase.

But no worries, SE listens to JP players more anyway.

No, it wasn't because of latency. The North American servers are based in North America, not in Japan. It was because Bards brought way more value to the raid than Machinists did.

And I honestly see no reason why pug groups would pick up Summoners but not Red Mages when they're both bringing roughly the same amount of raid damage and both have Raise.

[TcomJ]

No, it wasn't because of latency. The North American servers are based in North America, not in Japan. It was because Bards brought way more value to the raid than Machinists did.

And I honestly see no reason why pug groups would pick up Summoners but not Red Mages when they're both bringing roughly the same amount of raid damage and both have Raise.

Everybody knows even now you can't pay MCH with ping higher than 150, so if you don't have amazing internet providers like they usually do in Japan, MCH usually sucks. Nobody blocks MCH in Asia region.

Becuase in SB, the only utility bard gets more than MCH is well, FR, Three songs, Trabadour, Battle Voice, Minne.

But Refresh, Invigorate, Palisade, with your exclusive invul down you guys have it too so don't even.
Do you guys would even bother using Refresh? Nope. Do Bard players love to use it? yes.

[MaelleRiou]

Everybody knows even now you can't pay MCH with ping higher than 150, so if you don't have amazing internet providers like they usually do in Japan, MCH usually sucks. Nobody blocks MCH in Asia region.

Becuase in SB, the only utility bard gets more than MCH is well, FR, Three songs, Trabadour, Battle Voice, Minne.

But Refresh, Invigorate, Palisade, with your exclusive invul down you guys have it too so don't even.
Do you guys would even bother using Refresh? Nope. Do Bard players love to use it? yes.

Because the damage the raid got from the vulnerability debuff did not come anywhere close to matching the damage buffs bards brought.

[TcomJ]

Because the damage the raid got from the vulnerability debuff did not come anywhere close to matching the damage buffs bards brought.

Hence you get your pDPS increase you guys always wanted, so many potency buffs for MCH back in SB. So now you get what you want but it didn't turn out how it suppose to go, you MCH players advocate for homogenization and screw all the utilities based jobs. Nice.