Can SCH get its bugs fixed?

[Mikhaill]

Ok you're just being Dramatic. But once again, changes can be made, the Expansion only just launched, they can still make adjustments WAY before the next expansion.
Im sorry your bored with the current healers but...tough, We got what we got. They decided they wanna try to balance our current healers 1st before they attempt a new healer. if they made a new one and it has just as many issues as the current healers, what was solved? Sure we get a new toy, but now they have to balance 4 jobs at the same time instead of 3. I know its very flawed, but all you can do is give it time.
In the mean time, just play something else if you can;t be bothered to pick up healing again.

I don't think I'm being dramatic, it's true. Remember it took 2 years, an entire expansion for them to fix AST lmao.
Dunno, it's gonna be 6 years without a new healer, and 6 years of current healer balance struggle which they didn't even do much
but gut SCH/AST to make it just like WHM. Good balance, btw!
I'ma healer main so I'm just upset. I've enjoyed the SHB story but because healing isn't
fun, I'm hard press to continue for a while since I love to heal. I can do other jobs, it's not the same though lol.

It's just painfully obvious they have no earthly idea what to do with the healers.
Is what it is I guess. Really sad though.

[EaMett]

You say that...yet I had Zero issues. Once they adjusted the Lilies to sprout after a Cure 1 and 2, everything was fine.
Maybe Im just to casual and all of this is from people who do Endgame, because the Lily system was just fine. Of course its 1000x better now, but after the mentioned adjustment, it was nothing bad in SB.

This actually hits close to the issue for us career healers. The reality is that cure I and II have had very little use since HW. It’s very situational and using them generally means you could have done something better. If you were to use a single target GCD skill, regen was the way to go.
In general you might cure once or twice in ex roulette because someone messed up and maybe a handful of times in ~10mn savage runs (mostly during prog). This was the state before they implemented lilies.
When the mechanic was released in SB the idea that anyone could build 3 lilies even if cure proc was 100% (like what they changed it to) before using assize or some other cd was ridiculous, and the reduced cooldown didn’t really help with anything on top of that.
Cure has so little use that they even acknowledged it later in the expansion and removed benison from the lily system completely and later fixed the lilies with the current system. It took them 2 years.

The point is that a lot of the changes we’ve had over these past 4 years were made without career healers in mind. People who play healer enough that they’ve at least optimized a bit. I don’t know if this was on purpose or not but lilies missed the mark so much that I think it’s safe to assume game designers have a casual level of experience playing healer. Them removing ED this expansion or them even talking about pure healing tends to lend validity to that claim (95% of content requires less than 10% healing uptime)

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

SCH will never focus on healing more because the game itself is not designed for it, they would have to completely rework the game to fit this idea of "healers need to heal" they stripped SCH of all of its dps abilities, gave it a ton of healing abilities, but I'm still over here hitting the very few dps abilities I have left 90% of the time. That's not even just SCH, AST and WHM are in the same boat, we're all over here just dpsing most of the time instead of healing, because theres not much healing to do. And this isn't as easy as "turn up damage" because the resources we have, we dont have the luxury of healing constantly. Any healer who constantly heals will find themselves running on empty much quicker than one who balances heals and dps. They'd have to redesign toolkits, resources, damage, dungeon designs, raid designs. They'd have to essentially redo the game, and has been proven with ShB, a single expansion cannot change the game at its core, you'd need more than 2 years to change what healers are at their core, imo, just embrace the green dps, give healers something to do in downtime, and a reward for maximizing that down time that isnt more of spamming the same button. As for meta, meta will always be a thing, it may change, but every online game has one. So long as classes offer different things, there will always be a combination of those classes that achieves the goal better than any other combination. Every online game developer has said they want to get rid of meta, but none of them have actually done it. We saw it here, the healer meta is still a thing, just now WHM booted out AST, so that excuse is crap.

They dont need to rework the game, they need to rework Scholar. Maybe even Ast.
Lol if you're running low on MP as a White Mage, your doing it wrong XD. Because WHM has always had the best MP management. Before SB they had Shroud, then that got turned into a role ability called Lucid and applied to all healers. And now WHM have Thin Air just...you practically can't run out of MP, especially with good Piety.
Of course Meta will always exist, Meta is fluid, it will always change, the point is they demolished the Current Meta.
We can all think X amount of time is plenty of time and castrate the devs all we want...never gonna change the fact that its never an easy fix, no matter how much we wish it, or think it is.

At this point I guess Healers are in nothing but in a bad state in your eyes, so trying to talk hope into you is just a wasted effort. I'll remain a firm believer that heals can be adjusted. Good adjustments have happened several times already, it can happen again.
Ill hold on to that hope, as small as everyone deems it.
Good Day.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I don't think I'm being dramatic, it's true. Remember it took 2 years, an entire expansion for them to fix AST lmao.
Dunno, it's gonna be 6 years without a new healer, and 6 years of current healer balance struggle which they didn't even do much
but gut SCH/AST to make it just like WHM. Good balance, btw!
I'ma healer main so I'm just upset. I've enjoyed the SHB story but because healing isn't
fun, I'm hard press to continue for a while since I love to heal. I can do other jobs, it's not the same though lol.

It's just painfully obvious they have no earthly idea what to do with the healers.
Is what it is I guess. Really sad though.

We all got sent to the stake and are still burning on it.
Nah man, thats just being Dramatic lol

Are you sure it took TWO years? Because I saw more people running Ast then Whm perfectly fine before SB. And I came in Halfway through HW.
But even then, regardless....are you just gonna keep proving my point that changes can happen? SB changes, sounds like a change to me, just saying.
And yeah...that IS a good balance.....they just need to figure out how to make it work, which they haven't yet. But they still can!
So as a Healer Main, why not play Whm? Its actually really good. Or are you a Sch/Ast Main?

Maybe Im just to casual.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

This actually hits close to the issue for us career healers. The reality is that cure I and II have had very little use since HW. It’s very situational and using them generally means you could have done something better. If you were to use a single target GCD skill, regen was the way to go.
In general you might cure once or twice in ex roulette because someone messed up and maybe a handful of times in ~10mn savage runs (mostly during prog). This was the state before they implemented lilies.
When the mechanic was released in SB the idea that anyone could build 3 lilies even if cure proc was 100% (like what they changed it to) before using assize or some other cd was ridiculous, and the reduced cooldown didn’t really help with anything on top of that.
Cure has so little use that they even acknowledged it later in the expansion and removed benison from the lily system completely and later fixed the lilies with the current system. It took them 2 years.

The point is that a lot of the changes we’ve had over these past 4 years were made without career healers in mind. People who play healer enough that they’ve at least optimized a bit. I don’t know if this was on purpose or not but lilies missed the mark so much that I think it’s safe to assume game designers have a casual level of experience playing healer. Them removing ED this expansion or them even talking about pure healing tends to lend validity to that claim (95% of content requires less than 10% healing uptime)

Wait wait wait wait......Cure 1 and 2 arn't being used? What the heck are people doing as a Whm then? NOT healing till a Lily pops, and just using Insta casts and waiting for the CDs? Thats madness! Or are they just casting Medica and Medica 2 or Cure 3? all of which eats up way more MP if they are being used exclusively.
This makes no sense to me unless your only doing ARR content. That or people are just making the choice NOT to use Cure 1 & 2. Which even then makes no sense. I dont understand the healer community if this is a widespread issue.
The Lily system was FINE. They just Improved it for the next expansion. What you expect things to stay the same through a whole game? No, things change and get adjusted.

More and More Im just starting to think Im to casual to understand half the issues people present to me. Because Ive have Zero issues as a White Mage Main, but people wanna tell me my Lily kit was broken and bad. At the start yes, but it got fixed and I had nothing but fun. And here comes other people telling me it was bad. IDK....Im not seeing it or getting it.

[EaMett]

Wait wait wait wait......Cure 1 and 2 arn't being used? What the heck are people doing as a Whm then? NOT healing till a Lily pops, and just using Insta casts and waiting for the CDs? Thats madness! Or are they just casting Medica and Medica 2 or Cure 3? all of which eats up way more MP if they are being used exclusively.
This makes no sense to me unless your only doing ARR content. That or people are just making the choice NOT to use Cure 1 & 2. Which even then makes no sense. I dont understand the healer community if this is a widespread issue.
The Lily system was FINE. They just Improved it for the next expansion. What you expect things to stay the same through a whole game? No, things change and get adjusted.

More and More Im just starting to think Im to casual to understand half the issues people present to me. Because Ive have Zero issues as a White Mage Main, but people wanna tell me my Lily kit was broken and bad. At the start yes, but it got fixed and I had nothing but fun. And here comes other people telling me it was bad. IDK....Im not seeing it or getting it.

It boils down to priority healing. If you can keep people alive without using GCD heals then it’s better to do so because that means you can spend those GCDs doing DPS.

When you need to use a GCD to heal you’ll try to get as much bang for your buck as possible, usually this means regen for single target.

This means that you’ll always use your ogcd cooldowns first, benediction, assize, tetra, benison, asylum, PI if you had stacks. (Almost all of which consumed lilies of you had any)
You always use holy and e4e to mitigate damage in dungeons.
If you know that won’t be enough you’ll need a gcd or have to heal extra you’ll largesse regen.
When all of that fails then you have to ask yourself if you’ll need to heal the entire party with medica I/II, cure III and can hit your single target with that in the process.

Once you’re out of everything, or what you have off cooldown won’t be enough you’ll use cure II. Unless you’re having mana management issues you’ll never use cure I.

So basically your level 70 whm skill required your last resort heal to even have a percentage of chance to proc a lily (later changed to 100%). And what you could do with it was shorten cooldowns in an uncontrolled way. It was hard to even get more than one lily and even if you did it served little purpose. Even moreso in raiding context where all your heals are planned and timed.
Many a healer removed it to free up space in their interface, i always kept it but wouldn’t be capable of telling you when or if I had any after they moved benison off the lily system.

The above hasn’t changed in 5.0. Some skills have changed or been added/removed but it’s the same principle. Except the lily system is now good and takes priority over other heals for the most part thanks to misery. So yeah now you should be burning your lilies and cooldowns.

It’s not just a whm thing, it’s for all healers. Sch avoid shielding with succor or Adlo unless absolutely necessary for the same reasons. Astros just play whm instead.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It boils down to priority healing. If you can keep people alive without using GCD heals then it’s better to do so because that means you can spend those GCDs doing DPS.

When you need to use a GCD to heal you’ll try to get as much bang for your buck as possible, usually this means regen for single target.

This means that you’ll always use your ogcd cooldowns first, benediction, assize, tetra, benison, asylum, PI if you had stacks. (Almost all of which consumed lilies of you had any)
You always use holy and e4e to mitigate damage in dungeons.
If you know that won’t be enough you’ll need a gcd or have to heal extra you’ll largesse regen.
When all of that fails then you have to ask yourself if you’ll need to heal the entire party with medica I/II, cure III and can hit your single target with that in the process.

Once you’re out of everything, or what you have off cooldown won’t be enough you’ll use cure II. Unless you’re having mana management issues you’ll never use cure I.

So basically your level 70 whm skill required your last resort heal to even have a percentage of chance to proc a lily (later changed to 100%). And what you could do with it was shorten cooldowns in an uncontrolled way. It was hard to even get more than one lily and even if you did it served little purpose. Even moreso in raiding context where all your heals are planned and timed.
Many a healer removed it to free up space in their interface, i always kept it but wouldn’t be capable of telling you when or if I had any after they moved benison off the lily system.

The above hasn’t changed in 5.0. Some skills have changed or been added/removed but it’s the same principle. Except the lily system is now good and takes priority over other heals for the most part thanks to misery. So yeah now you should be burning your lilies and cooldowns.

It’s not just a whm thing, it’s for all healers. Sch avoid shielding with succor or Adlo unless absolutely necessary for the same reasons. Astros just play whm instead.

Holy is a Stun, not a Shield. Or am I so casual that I dont understand the Lingo of Mitigation? Scholar Galvanize and Ast's 2nd Sect shielding to me is Mitigation.
But eh, the more I read the less I obviously understand. But then again everything your telling me just sounds like a different play style. I don't do "Priority Healing" I just heal when needed, and DPS when I dont need to heal. Worked out for 2 and a half expansions, starting halfway through HW, and with all 3 Jobs.

[Sloprano]

I feel I've encountered few bugs, or it's just things I've gotten used to on scholar. I agree Catalyze not breaking first is an odd choice as I feel it further downplays the effect of Deployment Tactics. Be able to spread a slightly stronger shield than Succor on 2 min cooldown and not even getting the enjoyment of seeing E4E pop up on everyone is a whole lot of less "oomph" than seeing the whole party take 0 damage from Thunder God at 99% ultimate attack.

Bugs or unresponsiveness of Lily I've have a theory of have gotten the same behaviour AI as Summoner's Egi's, right down to no longer allowed to have pet skills on the pet hotbar and a 20s temporary summon with two charges. I find myself looking a lot more over the shoulder these days to see if Lily is following. I am hopeful they can reimplement Stormblood pet AI along with putting pet skills directly to the hotbar, being able to multitask the pet GCD aswell as your own is one of the many 20+ things I miss from scholar today.

[Aylis]

Posting this here because the content of the healer sub forum doesn’t seem to get passed onto the dev team consistently given how the most recent live letter had the devs saying “what sch issues?” Even though we’ve been flooding the healing forum with these issues since launch day.

Some of these are bugs, some of them are regressions:

• galvanize is absorbing the damage before catalyze. There’s no way this was intended design since the whole point in the first place should have been to be able to deploy off the tanks (in the current situation you can’t)
  
• using any fairy abilities before summoning seraph or dissipating your fairy will put the skill on cooldown without actually triggering the heal. This is even more of an issue because of the following point which is a regression
  
• very poor reactivity of the fairy. At the end of SB this was actually working better than ever and the new pet design has been a step back. It’s because embrace is instant now so you almost always need to wait on your fairy gcd before the queued skill launches. Combine this with dissipation or summoning seraph and you need to wait a significant amount before you can use these skills back to back with your fairy heals. It’s made even worse from the fact we’re pushed into forced double weaves from the low ruin II potency (the point being we definitely can’t double weave fairy skills and dissipation/summon) there are some workarounds, sometimes you just need to clip, it’s just clunky overall and a step back from what we had before.

Thank you for your time, I feel like I’m forgetting something but I’ll just edit if I remember.

While were at it can we also please just have our normal pre 5.0 Aetherflow back. Just from the heavy reliance on Excognition, Lustrate and Indomitablity that I been noticing more this expansion then previous ones.

[Hatstand]

Holy is a Stun, not a Shield. Or am I so casual that I dont understand the Lingo of Mitigation? Scholar Galvanize and Ast's 2nd Sect shielding to me is Mitigation.
But eh, the more I read the less I obviously understand. But then again everything your telling me just sounds like a different play style. I don't do "Priority Healing" I just heal when needed, and DPS when I dont need to heal. Worked out for 2 and a half expansions, starting halfway through HW, and with all 3 Jobs.

If it's not attacking, no health is being lost. If there is a shield up, no health is being lost. Different cause, same effect, with the effect being mitigation.

As for being reactive, that's fine for non optimal play, but the most scarce healer resource in this game is gcds, since mana isn't an issue for most healers. That means optimisation comes from using gcds effectively, and (as explained) that means prioritising ogcd heals. A lot of my joy in healing comes from optimising, even if what I'm doing isn't perfect yet, and I imagine plenty of other healers are the same.