Can SCH get its bugs fixed?

[Billythepancake]

I'm not understanding you here.

I can only see the differentiation between these being it's use for Deployment Tactics.
As Catalyse is the 'bonus' shield, it kinda makes sense that you'll get through the 'base' shield first, otherwise you've got loads more time to use Deployment Tactics.
I'm not sure what it is you 'can't' do here, you just need to use DT asap, as you always have.

Yeah huh the problem is, you have to wait a second or two before deploy, otherwise it just spreads nothing. And in that second or two the tank has taken an auto, meaning you didn't spread the best shield you could. Even if that wasn't a problem, you have time to use a deploy before your GCDs are up, so that's when you would WANT to deploy, since it would either negate clipping entirely, or at least severely reduce it. Instead now we're either forced to clip broil, or use another ruin II to weave it in.

[Seraphor]

Yeah huh the problem is, you have to wait a second or two before deploy, otherwise it just spreads nothing. And in that second or two the tank has taken an auto, meaning you didn't spread the best shield you could.

Ah, in that case the issue is the delay in shield deployment, not the order they're used in.

[EaMett]

Ah, in that case the issue is the delay in shield deployment, not the order they're used in.

The delay is due to the way server ticks work and how buffs and heals propagate. It's the same reason you get hit by AoEs after stepping out of them, or everyone but 1 or 2 players receive last minute shields, etc. etc. It's been like that since the game launched and even if they multiply the number of ticks the effect will still be there, just lessened.

On the other hand, splitting the critlo into two shields is a deliberate design meant to entice you to deploy off of your tank and benefit from the extra shield to cover for autos while at the same time getting a more consistent healing rotation from a fixed galvanize value. This was meant to be the upside of losing so much potency on critlo-deploy in 5.0.
The order in which the shields need to be consumed should be catalyze > galvanize, to give us time to deploy the full shield.

The notion that we'd have "loads more time to deploy" is mute because we came from a place where we placed the shield on our faerie and had all of ~30s to deploy it anyways. + currently we just place the shield on ourselves, and have all of ~30s to deploy. Catalyze for the most part is wasted

[EaMett]

I agree with your points. Unfortunately posting here isn't going to do any more good than posting in the healer forum. Even if the devs took scholar frustrations seriously and began work to address them, the almost total lack of two-way communication between devs and the community means we will never know until the appropriate set of patch notes are published.

We have a pretty bad track history in the Healer forums tbh. The general forum definitely looks like it sees more traffic from the community reps and/or influencers in general. It's much more likely for issues to be bubbled up from here imo. Especially considering that it's now been 2 months since launch and these issues still haven't gotten to the devs as of the last live letter. At this point it would be an improvement for most of us if they just acknowledged things, we don't even need them to fix it quickly.

We're what, on Patch 5.05 and you want to throw in the towel just because Senpai didn't give us enough attention on 1 Live Letter? Geez the Male Viera Thread has Nothing to go on and they over there still got way more enthusiasm for what they want despite it probably not happening. Things can always change and get updated, a handful of times moves were taken out, and then at some point brought back in, like Energy Drain. Healers are at least guaranteed to have something done if we keep being vocal about it, so stop putting your head down about it and acting like nothing will ever be done.
It won't happen right away, but it can always happen.

The issue here is that the track record has been pretty poor when it comes to healers. Between changes to classes that make very little sense to it taking an entire 2 year expansion to fix completely broken healer mechanics (lilies). Adding to that a serious lack of communication between devs and the NA healer community over the past 4 years + their constant admission that they can't seem to balance the healers properly over these past 4 years and it's only natural that healers would be on edge and defeatist. After all, in my 4 years of playing I have yet to see any changes that so much as reflect that the design team plays healer in an optimized setting. It's not all bad though, afflatus skills are great imo, seraph is fun, etc.. etc.. But we've been in a constant cycle of poor changes being made, having to complain for months, only getting 30% of poor changes reversed and having to wait 2 years for the rest to hit only to have other weird changes to complain about. I think anyone would be anxious for change at this point if they were healer main.

Sadly there are a lot of repeatedly issued good suggestions in the healer forums that seem to go unnoticed.

I don't really play healer all that much, but as I've been casually leveling scholar, I feel like I appreciated the order of the shields breaking, at least from my own experience.

As it is now, because galvanize is depleted first, I'm able to reapply it with adlo without wasting any galvanize while there's still some catalyze. Perhaps this is the source of the design decision?

I'm not really saying it's better or anything, but I don't think it's fair to label it as a bug.

This sounds mostly like you're talking about a dungeon situation. And probably leveling at that. There's currently no need for back to back addlos like this in lvl 80 content (even dungeons) and Recitation is better used on excog. There's also little need for back to back addlos while leveling though I can see this being a thing for player who aren't familiar with sch.
So if it isn't a bug then it's once again indication that the design team either aren't familiar with optimized play or don't care for it as much as their player base. I would be surprised if it were either. I like to assume that even if they're busy people, they would still get some good healers in to assess changes and this would have been something they would've been aware of, hence categorizing it as a bug.

When it comes to catalyze there is, currently, no good use for it outside of incredibly situational healing requirements (like someone other than a main tank going to take damage and shortly after having a raidwide you need to mitigate a LOT, none of the current content has that) or again, some very situational cases where you'd want the extra shielding on the tank and recitation wouldn't be better used on excog/indom. It just doesn't make sense in it's current iteration.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

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So you just mentioned Player Feedback getting Energy Drain and miasma 2 back into the game, 2 examples that prove my point that changes can happen. Not immediately, but changes that were made in time. Cleric stance, we're better off without it. It was cute, but its one less button and one less thing that can get in the way of a Healer being able to perform its job.
And..hello, bugs happen. Sometimes they slip through, gotta find them before you can get rid of them. I don't see how bugs give an impression of a Vision. That line of thinking just sounds weird

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Ok you're just being Dramatic. But once again, changes can be made, the Expansion only just launched, they can still make adjustments WAY before the next expansion.
Im sorry your bored with the current healers but...tough, We got what we got. They decided they wanna try to balance our current healers 1st before they attempt a new healer. if they made a new one and it has just as many issues as the current healers, what was solved? Sure we get a new toy, but now they have to balance 4 jobs at the same time instead of 3. I know its very flawed, but all you can do is give it time.
In the mean time, just play something else if you can;t be bothered to pick up healing again.

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Ok hold on with the Lilies, that mess was fixed PRETTY quickly, it took like 1 Major Patch to fix that. It didn't take long at all for the devs to get criticism about it, and they did something about it. Hey look, 1 more example of something getting fixed, and in less then 2 years. Then in next Expansion they Improved it.
I can't imagine balancing the role to be easy, even WITH suggestions, the community and the Devs need to keep at it, putting your head down literally wont fix anything, it won't
address issues.
And looking at what they've been doing, I can at least tell they are Trying. TRYING to balance stuff. Sadly we need to endure alot of trial and error before they can get it right and perfect.
It won't happen right away, but it can always happen.

[Hatstand]

So you just mentioned Player Feedback getting Energy Drain and miasma 2 back into the game, 2 examples that prove my point that changes can happen. Not immediately, but changes that were made in time. Cleric stance, we're better off without it. It was cute, but its one less button and one less thing that can get in the way of a Healer being able to perform its job.
And..hello, bugs happen. Sometimes they slip through, gotta find them before you can get rid of them. I don't see how bugs give an impression of a Vision. That line of thinking just sounds weird

Convincing the devs to give back something they took away is not progress. Especially when they they only give back some of what they took, which people want, and then take it away again in the next expansion.

And I find it hard to believe that a bug like fairy abilities taking ages to go off "slipped through". It's blatantly obvious if you play the class in any content. I think it's more likely that they knew it was happening but decided to let it happen because they didn't have time to fix it and they wanted to shift the fairy heals onto the gcd (another unpopular change). And I can kinda understand that. That's the sort ignorance change you wouldn't want to make in a patch. And I can also understand if they have other things on their plate that take higher priority, but as has been said before, some communication would be nice. A "we know there's this issue and we plan to fix it just we don't have time right now" would improve things a lot.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Convincing the devs to give back something they took away is not progress. Especially when they they only give back some of what they took, which people want, and then take it away again in the next expansion.

And I find it hard to believe that a bug like fairy abilities taking ages to go off "slipped through". It's blatantly obvious if you play the class in any content. I think it's more likely that they knew it was happening but decided to let it happen because they didn't have time to fix it and they wanted to shift the fairy heals onto the gcd (another unpopular change). And I can kinda understand that. That's the sort ignorance change you wouldn't want to make in a patch. And I can also understand if they have other things on their plate that take higher priority, but as has been said before, some communication would be nice. A "we know there's this issue and we plan to fix it just we don't have time right now" would improve things a lot.

Telling them the Job is worse without said skill and getting it back IS indeed progress to fixing and making a Job fun to play again.
I hope your counter-argument isn't "Well it will just get taken away again"

Personally, Id rather Advocate to give me control of the Fairy back. Back in SB I liked Using both my skills and the Fairy skills at the same time. Because IMO even back then the Fairy was slow. So this sounds less like a Bug, and more like they need to improve the AI. Partner AI healers can be just as bad.
How do we fix this, or even get it improved? By, SAYING something. And then we have to wait.
And lets be honest...even IF they communicated that outright, we'd still be in the same situation. They were honest that they have some limitations that stop them from doing something, and boom, people are complaining "Oh SE and the Devs dont care about us"

[Mikhaill]

Ok you're just being Dramatic. But once again, changes can be made, the Expansion only just launched, they can still make adjustments WAY before the next expansion.
Im sorry your bored with the current healers but...tough, We got what we got. They decided they wanna try to balance our current healers 1st before they attempt a new healer. if they made a new one and it has just as many issues as the current healers, what was solved? Sure we get a new toy, but now they have to balance 4 jobs at the same time instead of 3. I know its very flawed, but all you can do is give it time.
In the mean time, just play something else if you can;t be bothered to pick up healing again.

I don't think I'm being dramatic, it's true. Remember it took 2 years, an entire expansion for them to fix AST lmao.
Dunno, it's gonna be 6 years without a new healer, and 6 years of current healer balance struggle which they didn't even do much
but gut SCH/AST to make it just like WHM. Good balance, btw!
I'ma healer main so I'm just upset. I've enjoyed the SHB story but because healing isn't
fun, I'm hard press to continue for a while since I love to heal. I can do other jobs, it's not the same though lol.

It's just painfully obvious they have no earthly idea what to do with the healers.
Is what it is I guess. Really sad though.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I don't think I'm being dramatic, it's true. Remember it took 2 years, an entire expansion for them to fix AST lmao.
Dunno, it's gonna be 6 years without a new healer, and 6 years of current healer balance struggle which they didn't even do much
but gut SCH/AST to make it just like WHM. Good balance, btw!
I'ma healer main so I'm just upset. I've enjoyed the SHB story but because healing isn't
fun, I'm hard press to continue for a while since I love to heal. I can do other jobs, it's not the same though lol.

It's just painfully obvious they have no earthly idea what to do with the healers.
Is what it is I guess. Really sad though.

We all got sent to the stake and are still burning on it.
Nah man, thats just being Dramatic lol

Are you sure it took TWO years? Because I saw more people running Ast then Whm perfectly fine before SB. And I came in Halfway through HW.
But even then, regardless....are you just gonna keep proving my point that changes can happen? SB changes, sounds like a change to me, just saying.
And yeah...that IS a good balance.....they just need to figure out how to make it work, which they haven't yet. But they still can!
So as a Healer Main, why not play Whm? Its actually really good. Or are you a Sch/Ast Main?

Maybe Im just to casual.

[FoxyAreku]

Deploying off of the tanks has always been a bad thing to do ever since deployment tactics was put in the game. I'm not sure why anyone thought it would be different now. Even if catalyze was used up first, still a chance the hit would be hard enough to break through catalyze and effect the galvanize.