Lack of End Game Content

[Zabuza]

Most of the people telling you to look elsewhere are being kind, if you're not happy their trying to share with you what might from their experiences, you're the one meeting everyone with swords, using the actions of a few to justify this "casuals ruined the game give me what I'm owed but I can be this hostile because many, many pages back some people were to me".

I don't see those who are telling me to look elsewhere as being kind. I see it as them saying there is no issue to be discussed so don't talk about this issue, but instead leave. I've seen a ton of sentences such as that, which basically are revealing people don't want me to talk about the issue. Suggesting that I leave the game when I've already been frequently unsubbing is no kindness. Also people telling me I need to do 100% of everything before I can ask for any endgame, is a way to try to get me to also stop discussing this topic since they know it would take me some time to clear the two Ultimates. People just don't want to address it really, but would rather I unsub or stop posting. If you want me to stop posting so badly, then stop responding to me then.

[SaberMaxwell]

Also people telling me I need to do 100% of everything before I can ask for any endgame, is a way to try to get me to also stop discussing this topic since they know it would take me some time to clear the two Ultimates.

Exactly, it would take time to do Ultimate. It's a challenging fight that takes a long time to accomplish. Isn't that what you want? You were complaining earlier about people (me) being able to clear the tier with 35 hours of work, well here's Ultimate that takes about 150 hours on average. It's a ton to chew into, and it's great fun as well. There's 3 months between Ultimate and the next tier's Savage, and a lot of people use that entire 3 months, not to mention that UCoB is still relevant two years later.

If your complaint is "there's not enough challenging endgame" and you're ignoring the zenith of that endgame, of course you're going to get raised eyebrows.

[Zabuza]

Exactly, it would take time to do Ultimate. It's a challenging fight that takes a long time to accomplish. Isn't that what you want? You were complaining earlier about people (me) being able to clear the tier with 35 hours of work, well here's Ultimate that takes about 150 hours on average. It's a ton to chew into, and it's great fun as well. There's 3 months between Ultimate and the next tier's Savage, and a lot of people use that entire 3 months, not to mention that UCoB is still relevant two years later.

If your complaint is "there's not enough challenging endgame" and you're ignoring the zenith of that endgame, of course you're going to get raised eyebrows.

I mean, it's literally one fight per tier. Not much in actual content but difficulty, for sure. It just feels more like Ultimate is being suggested as a way of 'how can we get him to stop posting.' Hoping I'll get into it and then forget this thread exists...Maybe you're actually trying to help me. Either way, I don't feel that people should need to clear both Ultimates before they can comment on endgame, because then only 1% of people are allowed to say anything about endgame? These standards don't apply to anything else in the game. We don't ask people to collect every mount before they suggest an idea for another type of mount they think would be cool... I also guarantee you a lot of people feeling that there is a void of endgame and unsubbing are not people who have cleared Ultimate.

[Nariel]

I mean, it's literally one fight per tier. Not much in actual content but difficulty, for sure. It just feels more like Ultimate is being suggested as a way of 'how can we get him to stop posting.' Hoping I'll get into it and then forget this thread exists...Maybe you're actually trying to help me. Either way, I don't feel that people should need to clear both Ultimates before they can comment on endgame, because then only 1% of people are allowed to say anything about endgame? These standards don't apply to anything else in the game. We don't ask people to collect every mount before they suggest an idea for another type of mount they think would be cool... I also guarantee you a lot of people feeling that there is a void of endgame and unsubbing are not people who have cleared Ultimate.

Yeah and even with their unsubbing the game still grow steadily, so they are not missed.

[Zabuza]

Yeah and even with their unsubbing the game still grow steadily, so they are not missed.

Gallery, I present Exhibit A in my evidence of hatred towards raiders.

[Nariel]

Gallery, I present Exhibit A in my evidence of hatred towards raiders.

Its not that I hate them, I don't care and gladly accept any new hardcore content if it didn't cost me my part of fun. Its just not as much a big problem as you present it if at all.

[BlitzAceRush]

Gallery, I present Exhibit A in my evidence of hatred towards raiders.

That's not hatred, it's a valid point. You're arguing that their loss is a loss to 14 but people point out 14 continues to grow and be bigger without them.
People are talking to you about the issue, you just don't like what they're saying, having the stance the game is fine and perhaps you'll find what you seek elsewhere is just a valid as you asking for change, but apparently unless we just agree with you we're "attacking" you and trying to "silence" you.

You're trying so hard to play the victim because people don't agree with what you want as you argue a subjective point as an objective point. YOU feel there is a lack of endgame content, the devs and the majority feel that things are fine as is, you can want more but you're not standing on some kind of factual high ground.

You have a right to suggest content, do so, people have a right to disagree and offer counter points, they can do so, this is a public forum, if you don't want discussion that may disagree with your view point then post your suggestion in feedback/the live letter Q&A section and move on, otherwise stop attacking others for disagreeing with you because at this point you're just hiding behind what was said to you 50 pages back and twisting others words to justify your aggressive stance.

[Zabuza]

That's not hatred, it's a valid point. You're arguing that their loss is a loss to 14 but people point out 14 continues to grow and be bigger without them.
People are talking to you about the issue, you just don't like what they're saying, having the stance the game is fine and perhaps you'll find what you seek elsewhere is just a valid as you asking for change, but apparently unless we just agree with you we're "attacking" you and trying to "silence" you.

You're trying so hard to play the victim because people don't agree with what you want as you argue a subjective point as an objective point. YOU feel there is a lack of endgame content, the devs and the majority feel that things are fine as is, you can want more but you're not standing on some kind of factual high ground.

You have a right to suggest content, do so, people have a right to disagree and offer counter points, they can do so, this is a public forum, if you don't want discussion that may disagree with your view point then post your suggestion in feedback/the live letter Q&A section and move on, otherwise stop attacking others for disagreeing with you because at this point you're just hiding behind what was said to you 50 pages back and twisting others words to justify your aggressive stance.

He essentially said, raiders please leave, you won't be missed. Yet I'm the aggressive one eh? Yeah, sure. I wasn't the only one who expressed frustration with the endgame and the fact that you guys were pretty aggressive. I'm just the only one still posting about it. The others have probably given up, because they know their words won't be heard.

[SaberMaxwell]

I mean, it's literally one fight per tier. Not much in actual content but difficulty, for sure.

It's one fight, yeah, but the difficulty gives it longevity. Progging it, like I said, can take upwards of months; assuming one raids an average of 30 hours a week, their average kill would be five weeks in (based on the average 150h measure). That's a huge amount of time to raid per week, as well, a lot don't raid 30 hours a week.

It just feels more like Ultimate is being suggested as a way of 'how can we get him to stop posting.' Hoping I'll get into it and then forget this thread exists...Maybe you're actually trying to help me.

I'm hoping that you get into it and enjoy the content so much you do forget this thread. The only caveat is that if you do get the taste for Ultimate, even Savage slows down to a crawl in comparison, so watch out for that :P

Either way, I don't feel that people should need to clear both Ultimates before they can comment on endgame, because then only 1% of people are allowed to say anything about endgame?

That's a fair criticism. For what it's worth, you are allowed to comment (I certainly can't and won't stop you); my stance from the beginning was "I wouldn't mind more, but I'm fine with what we have although I am biased because I do enjoy the content cycle of Extreme to Savage to Ultimate." Savage is a progression raid, Ultimate is not, so they can make Ultimate in a much more precise way both mechanically and with regards to stat checks, because it can be tuned for exact item levels rather than approximations by the developers.

These standards don't apply to anything else in the game. We don't ask people to collect every mount before they suggest an idea for another type of mount they think would be cool...

The problem here is, asking someone to do Ultimate isn't the same as asking them "to do everything." Nobody cares if you go back and complete The Soul of the Creator (Savage); nobody cares if you go complete The Second Coil of Bahamut Turn 4. Nobody's declaring you need a 100% raid portfolio across every expansion in order to have credentials. In the current content cycle, Ultimate is the zenith; it's the end. The omega to Savage's alpha. Both Ultimates remain relevant today because they can't be unsynched, and their rewards are likewise still very prestigious. That's a lot of staying power for this MMO especially, considering the content is over a year old now.

Most raiders I know consider Ultimate to be just as relevant endgame as current Savage.

I also guarantee you a lot of people feeling that there is a void of endgame and unsubbing are not people who have cleared Ultimate.

If enough are abandoning Savage to be statistically significant, I'm sure Square Enix will change their formula. I'm sure that's one of the reasons they came up with Ultimate in the first place as well; a nice compromise between people who liked Gordias difficulty and people who liked gear progression.

[HyoMinPark]

I mean, it's literally one fight per tier. Not much in actual content but difficulty, for sure.

It’s one fight that is more challenging and carries more weight than the four you are progressing through currently. And it certainly took the best players in the game longer to clear than any Savage tier since Midas (UCoB took about 13 days; UwU took about 6 days—for comparison, Creator took about 36 hours; Deltascape, Sigmascape, and Alphascape took about 18 hours; and Eden took less than that).

Shrugging off Ultimate because “it’s just one fight” isn’t really a decent excuse not to acknowledge the content.