MMORPGs How they have changed for the better? or worse?

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Video games are not a disease either.

pan·dem·ic
/panˈdemik/

adjective

1.
(of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world.

noun
noun: pandemic; plural noun: pandemics
1.
an outbreak of a pandemic disease.

Depression, Anxiety disorders, personality disorder are diseases, and are pandemic to some countries, and one of the factors in it's increase is the long exposure to videogames: Particulary MMORPGs.
I never said videogames were a disease. Im saying they make people with some diseases even more sick, and in several countries of the world, these diseases are in fact, pandemic.

See, South Korea and Japan. Countries where the dissociation with real life - a healthy biosocial network is not possible for a lot of people because they just shut into their rooms to do mostly anime, series, or videogames. Yeah, wine and beer are not diseases, nor are hamburguers. Alcoholism and Morbid Obesity are.
Same here.

[Edax]

And my grade thesis was a bit about psychology of gamers in relationship with learning processes and yes, found a lot of evidence for a subportion of the subjects (NEETs mostly) which presented several psychological disorders that were only reinforced by their exposition to videogames, MMORPGs and MMOs in general being the most recurrent "drug".

Depression, Anxiety disorders, personality disorder are diseases, and are pandemic to some countries, and one of the factors in it's increase is the long exposure to videogames: Particulary MMORPGs.
I never said videogames were a disease. Im saying they make people with some diseases even more sick, and in several countries of the world, these diseases are in fact, pandemic.

See, South Korea and Japan. Countries where the dissociation with real life - a healthy biosocial network is not possible for a lot of people because they just shut into their rooms to do mostly anime, series, or videogames. Yeah, wine and beer are not diseases, nor are hamburguers. Alcoholism and Morbid Obesity are.
Same here.

I'm sorry but equating MMORPGs to drugs and saying MMORPGs make the diseased even sicker comes across as needlessly alarmist and hyperbolic.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

I'm sorry but equating MMORPGs to drugs and saying MMORPGs make the diseased even sicker comes across as needlessly alarmist and hyperbolic.

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do. Social Isolation.
Specially in the case of people who plays for several, several hours. I'm not talking about 2-4 hours. Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone. Which a good chuck of populations in several countries are doing.

Again, im not saying videogames provoke depression, anxiety or something like that. Im saying that spending 8 hours of your day in videogames is alarming for an integral biosocial development and psychological health, let alone if you are already diagnosed.

And no, NEETs are not a "minority" playing these MMORPGs. In fact, the issue here is that the whole game design of these kind of videogames revolve on making the games specifically for them. The myth of "grind is part of the design" is just a cheap excuse when you notice that is exactly them the target audience of these kind of games.

Just like whales are for the monetization of these games.

I agree. I've studied just how overworked Japanese students and salary-men can get, or how companies over there hire for life. I will not look down on a NEET for rejecting that lifestyle.
I was pressured into getting a college degree and it made me miserable. I was pressured into my first two jobs and they made me miserable. How can I look down at people who who would rather be happy? Making money for the company I work for certainly isn't bringing me joy and it's not something I'll look back on in 40 years with any pride. If a shut-in wants to play FFXIV and they can afford it, then I say more power to them.

Thats tangent to what im saying.
Of course unhealthy societies generate unhealthy people.
But you cannot justify social/reality escapism, let alone when that escapism is something that is supporting said unhealthy society in the first place (operational conditioning for mass consumption of goods and media - Videogame addicts.)

"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

[Zabuza]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do. Social Isolation.
Specially in the case of people who plays for several, several hours. I'm not talking about 2-4 hours. Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone. Which a good chuck of populations in several countries are doing.

Again, im not saying videogames provoke depression, anxiety or something like that. Im saying that spending 8 hours of your day in videogames is alarming for an integral biosocial development and psychological health, let alone if you are already diagnosed.

And no, NEETs are not a "minority" playing these MMORPGs. In fact, the issue here is that the whole game design of these kind of videogames revolve on making the games specifically for them. The myth of "grind is part of the design" is just a cheap excuse when you notice that is exactly them the target audience of these kind of games.

Just like whales are for the monetization of these games.



Thats tangent to what im saying.
Of course unhealthy societies generate unhealthy people.
But you cannot justify social/reality escapism, let alone when that escapism is something that is supporting said unhealthy society in the first place (operational conditioning for mass consumption of goods and media - Videogame addicts.)

"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

Ah, so we're back to saying that those of us who enjoyed the old MMORPGs are sick and broken people who shouldn't have games that we enjoy, because we're not healthy enough to decide that on our own. Only you and people like you are stable enough to decide for us. Thank you for your concern, but I interact with people around me IRL just fine. Problem is, I am typically bored by IRL interactions. I find most of the conversations of the people around me IRL to be shallow and uninteresting. Though it sounds as though you're saying I should be forced into those interactions and not be allowed to do something that is interesting to me and which actually engages me mentally.

[Edax]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do.

And yet there are clear distinct differences between illegal drugs and video games. You found some points of commonality between two things and you're using that as an excuse to call video games "drugs", but that is still nonsense. You can link coffee and drugs and claim they activate the very same processes and brain interconnections with several kind of drugs, but it will still come off as nonsense if you call Starbucks a drug dealer.

Yet it isn't.


"More power to them" - You are just supporting a passive form of suicide. Then again, you might even argue that suicide is a personal option that should be supported and of course, we don't hold people to the same standars of health.
I suggest watching a few classes or talks of Robert Sapolsky, specially on depression.

That people needs health care and social support to HEAL from their SICKNESS.

Not "more power to them" to slowly kill themselves, and at the very least, permanently damage their brain functions.

You are making the grave mistake of equating a lifestyle to suicide. How one chooses to live their life is completely antithetical to ending it. If you believe playing video games are a form of suicide, then that is because of your subjective viewpoints on what living life is.

By a different subjective measure, it can be said that those who engage in forms of entertainment have a zest for life. I'm afraid your not being very objective when it comes to the topic of video games and other people's lifestyle choices.

I support people seeking happiness regardless of employment or education status. You call it passive suicide, I call it life.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

And yet there are clear distinct differences between illegal drugs and video games. You found some points of commonality between two things and you're using that as an excuse to call video games "drugs", but that is still nonsense. You can link coffee and drugs and claim they activate the very same processes and brain interconnections with several kind of drugs, but it will 1.- Still come off as nonsense if you call Starbucks a drug dealer.

You are making the 2.- Grave mistake of equating a lifestyle to suicide. How one chooses to live their life is completely antithetical to ending it. 3.- If you believe playing video games are a form of suicide, then that is because of your subjective viewpoints on what living life is.

By a different subjective measure, it can be said that those who engage in forms of entertainment have a zest for life. I'm afraid your not being very objective when it comes to the topic of video games and other people's lifestyle choices.

I support people seeking happiness regardless of employment or education status. You call it passive suicide, I call it life.

1.- Actually don't, it is a drug and in case it makes the person unable to have proper social interactions, a healthy lifestyle and/or care for their mental health in general. Then again caffeine addicts exist and caffeine is an actual drug. Legalized or Illegal doesn't change the fact that they are drugs and prolonged, out of control and socially endanring drugs can be both legal and illegal. It doesn't matter if its videogames, trans-fat or cocaine, addiction acts the same on the social behavior of the person and it's brain functions.

2.- You are making the grave mistake of confusing any lifestyle with a healthy lifestyle. You might fool yourself to think that being morbidly obese or spend all your life in a room playing video games is a HEALTHY lifestyle, it isn't. Period.

3.- Stop twisting words btw. I said that a person that already suffers from mental illness is in a dire situation if it's supported on their conditioned behaviors to keep an unhealthy lifestyle of social isolation. Then again, you keep on saying that im saying that videogames are causing these issues when i've said like 5, six with this, that videogames are not the cause, they are just like really bad to them, in general.

Nobody asked for the perspective of "healthy biosocial development".

People that think human life, quality of life, and a proper mental health are important do care.
Ask any psychiatrist or psychologist about the idea of mentally ill person spending +10 hours without social interaction (basic human contact) and if its a valid "lifestyle". Valid, probably. Healthy? Come on.

[Edax]

1.- Actually don't, it is a drug and in case it makes the person unable to have proper social interactions, a healthy lifestyle and/or care for their mental health in general. Then again caffeine addicts exist and caffeine is an actual drug. Legalized or Illegal doesn't change the fact that they are drugs and prolonged, out of control and socially endanring drugs can be both legal and illegal. It doesn't matter if its videogames, trans-fat or cocaine, addiction acts the same on the social behavior of the person and it's brain functions.

And do you go around calling Starbucks a drug dealer then?

You are just supporting a passive form of suicide.

Specially the point about NEETs, need more info, check the documental "Love Child" for example, a clear documentary on the pandemic that is videogame addiction in South Korea and by extension countries like japan and other developing countries.
And my grade thesis was a bit about psychology of gamers in relationship with learning processes and yes, found a lot of evidence for a subportion of the subjects (NEETs mostly) which presented several psychological disorders that were only reinforced by their exposition to videogames, MMORPGs and MMOs in general being the most recurrent "drug".

2.- You are making the grave mistake of confusing any lifestyle with a healthy lifestyle. You might fool yourself to think that being morbidly obese or spend all your life in a room playing video games is a HEALTHY lifestyle, it isn't. Period.

You are moving the goalposts here. Not living a healthy lifestyle and "passive suicide" are not remotely the same thing. I'm sure me being a non-vegetarian is not as healthy a lifestyle as a vegetarian, but if you were to call eating meat "passive suicide" then that would be ridiculous hyperbole. No one needs to be shamed for not living a "healthy lifestyle", especially if it compromises a person's happiness. Implying that NEETs are unhealthy junkies is extremely disrespectful and it appears to be me that you are doing video game addicts more harm than good with your excessive exaggerations and personal bias'.

But you cannot justify social/reality escapism, let alone when that escapism is something that is supporting said unhealthy society in the first place (operational conditioning for mass consumption of goods and media - Videogame addicts.)

I can and I will. Escapism is not a crime, it is not morally wrong, and it is not for you to decide that it can or cannot be supported. It's your subjective opinion that society is unhealthy.

Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone.

No, the last thing you want to happen to a person with depression is to take what little happiness they have away from them. What's paramount to a person with depression is happiness, not health.

[Nixxe]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs.

Which doesn't actually mean much if you have any idea how dopamine works and what role it plays in the brain.

[Xatsh]

Yet it isn't.

Videogames are confirmed to activate the very same processes and brain interconnections than several kind of drugs. In fact in some cases even physiological effects have been documented, rare occurrence but still there. Let alone what social isolation does to basic brain functions - And guess just what videogames in general do. Social Isolation.
Specially in the case of people who plays for several, several hours. I'm not talking about 2-4 hours. Im talking about teenagers or NEET adults that can spend well over +10 hours daily. That is particularly unhealthy for people with already diagnosed psychological or psychiatric sickness. Last thing you want a person with depression do is to spend his whole life in a room watching a monitor not interacting with anyone. Which a good chuck of populations in several countries are doing.

I am going to have to disagree with this from my personal experience.

My guild back in the early days of ffxi pulled me out of a horrid depression. I was nearing the point of just giving up completely. It gave me a community of people to talk to, people hang out with on a daily basis. The guild gave me structure to focus my thoughts on. And when I became an office it gave me a feeling of purpose again. That is the thing about mmos, you are not playing 10+hrs a day without interaction or social isolation, you are spending 10hrs a day interacting with people from across the globe. There are people I call friends in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Germany, UK, Honghong, Japan, Australia, Spain, Mexico, Canada, and throughout the US. I meet my future wife in Chicago on this game for example. Alot of my ffxi guild members I still have contact with today nearly 15yrs later. I remember when we were starting college together, or in many of thier cases just Juniors in HS. Now many have kids and families. Many I have met in real life.

Who ever did the study about mmos causing social isolation... well is just wrong it is literally the opposite. (Well use to be... why mmos have changed for the worse)

MMOs provide social interaction not remove it. Are they addicting yes they are. When my account was hacked back in ffxi and it took SE, 2 weeks to unlock it and get it back. I slept horribly, didn't eat well, couldn't focus well in college, and was in a state of constant stress. So I agree it is addicting. But then again almost everything we like is not just the bad stuff.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Which doesn't actually mean much if you have any idea how dopamine works and what role it plays in the brain.

Is exactly because how dopamine works that is such the effect.

I am going to have to disagree with this from my personal experience.

My guild back in the early days of ffxi pulled me out of a horrid depression. I was nearing the point of just giving up completely. It gave me a community of people to talk to, people hang out with on a daily basis. The guild gave me structure to focus my thoughts on. And when I became an office it gave me a feeling of purpose again. That is the thing about mmos, you are not playing 10+hrs a day without interaction or social isolation, you are spending 10hrs a day interacting with people from across the globe. There are people I call friends in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Germany, UK, Honghong, Japan, Australia, Spain, Mexico, Canada, and throughout the US. I meet my future wife in Chicago on this game for example. Alot of my ffxi guild members I still have contact with today nearly 15yrs later. I remember when we were starting college together, or in many of thier cases just Juniors in HS. Now many have kids and families. Many I have met in real life.

Who ever did the study about mmos causing social isolation... well is just wrong it is literally the opposite. (Well use to be... why mmos have changed for the worse)

MMOs provide social interaction not remove it. Are they addicting yes they are. When my account was hacked back in ffxi and it took SE, 2 weeks to unlock it and get it back. I slept horribly, didn't eat well, couldn't focus well in college, and was in a state of constant stress. So I agree it is addicting. But then again almost everything we like is not just the bad stuff.

Cool personal experience.
And no, talking with people over a screen or interface doesn't qualify as social interaction. Not at least from the perspective of a healthy biosocial development.