Issue with TBN

[Tobalito]

I love the way TBN works and wouldnt want them to change it. Sure the others (I'll call it active mitigation) CDs only benefit, but DRK benefits so much more when used correctly. It's a wonderful skill that doesnt involve mindlessly using it, but instead rewards proper usage. If you arent taking enough dmg to warrant it, you have other CDs. Or maybe, if you are taking such low dmg.. you dont need a CD?

[Undeadfire]

It's not because of the "damage negation", that's completely fine. The problem is it's cost to using, while Shelltron/Heart Of Stone are completely free to use. Provides Edge/Flood if broken but saving TBNs all the time is a major DPS loss overall. TBN is no match for HOS/ST overall, because they continue damage negations. 1 hit of 25% damage removal from a buster doesn't make it super good, it's pretty terrible. HOS has far more value for simply doing more for auto attacks after a buster with no drawbacks. Even Sheltron offers that value as much.

Edit:

No one like Warrior.

2nd: It's GNB/PLD meta for simply having the best kit overall. Drk/War simply need reworks, or better buffs.

[Interovegas]

It's not because of the "damage negation", that's completely fine. The problem is it's cost to using, while Shelltron/Heart Of Stone are completely free to use. Provides Edge/Flood if broken but saving TBNs all the time is a major DPS loss overall. TBN is no match for HOS/ST overall, because they continue damage negations. 1 hit of 25% damage removal from a buster doesn't make it super good, it's pretty terrible. HOS has far more value for simply doing more for auto attacks after a buster with no drawbacks. Even Sheltron offers that value as much.

No. As long as you do not overcap on mana you do not lose damage at all, full stop. So long as every TBN that you cast is popped, mana usage is equivalent to warrior beast guage usage. In fact, simpler, because you have less generator combos to worry about (no upheaval and infuriate to worry about).

Further more TBN does not block 25% on one hit. It just absorbs up to 25% of your maximum hp over the following 7 seconds. Just go back and see basic posts comparing the math. Heart of Stone is literally a joke compared to TBN.

[Undeadfire]

No. As long as you do not overcap on mana you do not lose damage at all, full stop. So long as every TBN that you cast is popped, mana usage is equivalent to warrior beast guage usage. In fact, simpler, because you have less generator combos to worry about (no upheaval and infuriate to worry about).

Further more TBN does not block 25% on one hit. It just absorbs up to 25% of your maximum hp over the following 7 seconds. Just go back and see basic posts comparing the math. Heart of Stone is literally a joke compared to TBN.

Rubbish, it is a DPS loss. You're saving 3k MP for a reduce tank buster when the DPS windows are up, that is a loss. Unless you work with your team knowing when and not when to. Edge values way more over TBN when your DPS are using utility cool downs.

All TBN is good for is blocking Busters, auto attacks take too long or don't break in time the further we go with our Ilvls. HOS can fuel out consistently for a short CD, reduce a buster and reduce an auto attacks, plus AOEs. Or other words rotate around with no drawbacks, it isn't maths, it's common sense.

Always max DPS over the "reduce buster damage", not talking about casual easy content. Rampart/Sentinel are always back for the next busters, with the Invulnerable included. Only E4S really puts the threat at the moment to use TBN, other than that with 470 there's no need for it.

In the end Pld/Gnb will be top notch combo for doing larger DPS pools.

[Tobalito]

It's not because of the "damage negation", that's completely fine. The problem is it's cost to using, while Shelltron/Heart Of Stone are completely free to use. Provides Edge/Flood if broken but saving TBNs all the time is a major DPS loss overall.

Edit:

2nd: It's GNB/PLD meta for simply having the best kit overall. Drk/War simply need reworks, or better buffs.

1) so the way MP works, is so that as long as you arent overcappinng, you are literally not losing any DPS because of TBN. It would be no different than holding fans as a dancer. You arent limping yourself just because you arent using your fan dances, unless you overcap.
2)so long as there is proper usage of TBN, you are basically still using that MP on DMG now just with added mitigation( and a whole lot at that)
3) it's not HoS and shouldnt be, they are used differently and that's a good thing. If I'm at 1 health and pop HoS.... I'm still dead. If I'm at 1 health and pop TBN... I still have the potential to live. That is the greatness of a skill like this, it's more flexible in its usage. And btw, Shelton costs 50 gauge.
4) TBN also has the second lowest CD of similar abilities for other jobs for it's great effectiveness
5) it doesnt block just 1 hit, if you didnt take 25% of health as dmg, it persists until the shield is gone.
6)Tanks a fairly balanced and one who is speaking gospel about a meta are talking out of their asses.
7) WAR and DRK could use tweaks... not reworks tbh. Though this is all opinion.

[kazzel120]

Rubbish, it is a DPS loss. You're saving 3k MP for a reduce tank buster when the DPS windows are up, that is a loss. Unless you work with your team knowing when and not when to. Edge values way more over TBN when your DPS are using utility cool downs.

All TBN is good for is blocking Busters, auto attacks take too long or don't break in time the further we go with our Ilvls. HOS can fuel out consistently for a short CD, reduce a buster and reduce an auto attacks, plus AOEs. Or other words rotate around with no drawbacks, it isn't maths, it's common sense.

Always max DPS over the "reduce buster damage", not talking about casual easy content. Rampart/Sentinel are always back for the next busters, with the Invulnerable included. Only E4S really puts the threat at the moment to use TBN, other than that with 470 there's no need for it.

In the end Pld/Gnb will be top notch combo for doing larger DPS pools.

Auto attacks are a pathetic amount of inc damage anyway. HoS is 15% reduced damage thats pathetic compared to TBNs over 35k negated damage simple math will even tell you this. Stop use TBN for AUTO ATTACKS if you use it for that you are bad simple as that.

If you think TBN is bad for tank busters and a waste of literally no mp at all Git Gud TBN as of now is the best CD for negating the damage when its needed most.

[kazzel120]

Oh not to mention the higher hp scales the better TBN will get but lets just bitch about how waaaa 7 second waaaa it doesnt break when i use it incorrectly.

TBN as of now can reduce upwards of 70% of the weakest tank busters and upwards of 35% of current hard content. Pair that with an aldo and some things do 0 damage lets see a gnb/pld or war come even close to that.

Oh nvm aldo would be a waste of the sch mp because it only shields for so much..... Oh and lets not forget the outcry about stoneskin being removed because i guess it was a bad skill according to people who act like TBN is bad now lol.

[TouchandFeel]

TBN is both better and worse than the other frequent use tank defensive abilities depending on the context in which you look at it.

It is better in that it can negate more damage than the others in many instances of high damage to the point where it can virtually act like a mini Hallowed Ground that you can use regularly. It's shorter recast also gives it more flexibility to when to use it, although it's overall frequency of use is still gated by the speed of MP gain. It also stacks better with other defensive abilities since it is a shield and not another % damage mitigation ability. There is a lot of stuff that makes TBN an amazing ability.

It is worse because the dps loss if it isn't broken then requires the player to only use it in instances where there will be enough incoming damage. Having to hold on to the ability limits how often you can use it, so while it has a short recast you will often not be using it anywhere near that frequently outside of the early parts of wall to wall dungeon pulls. You also have to pay attention to and manage your MP so you don't get caught with your pants down and a buster about to smash you in the face, but that is sort of the whole game-play of DRK so it really isn't an issue, at least in my eyes.

The other tank frequent use defensive abilities have no caveats to their use so you can use them to reduce a little damage from fluff and then stack it for a buster. TBN on the other hand can't be used for fluff or it won't break and is used for busters mainly.

Basically it boils down to TBN in most cases reducing more damage when it is used but being used less frequently, essentially balancing it out overall.

The main issues with DRK's defensive kit is Dark Mind in content where physical damage is prominent and the less than user-friendly Living Dead.

The only real changes that TBN could use right now is maybe a second or two more to it's duration, which may end up happening along with all the other tank frequent defensives also maybe getting some duration boost based on the answer from the recent live letter, and looking into the delay when activating the ability, which all the frequent defensives have to a point but TBN's seems just a bit longer.

I'd be fine with Dark Arts making that Edge/Flood a DH+Crit, but simply for the extra dps aspect of it, not going to say no to more damage, but I wouldn't say such is necessary to "fix" TBN.

[DJMau]

"TBN is bad because I have to think about when to use it."
The know nothing know-it-all 'tank' crowd

[ADVSS]

"TBN is bad because I have to think about when to use it."
The know nothing know-it-all 'tank' crowd

But you dont, really. You CAN use it every 15s The only time you can't is if you're out of MP.