Issue with TBN

[Interovegas]

Yes, it’s better, and in the highest end of content where it’s obvious deficiencies are mercilessly beaten out of it it does fine. But what about the other 99% of content in the game? In dungeons I’ve had bosses use stack mechanics on me and I soloed them with TBN and it still didn’t break, it’s kind of ridiculous.

My point being it doesn’t scale down well. You can argue “if you’re not taking enough damage to break it then it doesn’t matter” but that’s bs. If the other tanks are using their mitigation tools to reduce damage and DRK’s is TOO strong to even use it, then how is it better anymore?

THAT is why I say it needs to be adjusted to be less penalising OR have a scaled back second CD that shares a recast more in line with the other tanks skills to use when you can’t use TBN.

Your points are well reasoned, and certainly DRK suffers when syncing to low level content now. However, TBN is level 70+ and so the amount of content where you can use TBN and it's not relevant is not that great. (Because it absolutely still holds value for SB ex trials, raids and ultimate content if you seek to do those synced).

It's pretty awful for FATEs and the DRK is bad on the whole for FATEs with very little independent sustain.
It's only viable in dungeons when tanking wall to wall, but the nature of the mitigation is hard on healers when your hp is falling through the floor every 5 seconds.
Can't speak to PvP.

Particularly your comment about when TBN is too strong to use properly cuts at its worst design flaws. It feels terrible for your mitigation to be so strong that its impossible to use correctly. When I tackle solo de-sync content to pursue glamours I see myself die by 1000 cuts to bosses that the WAR and PLD can easily sustain through.

It comes down to my personal preference though that I'd rather have abilities that are very strong in top end content because the overall difference in performance when handling overworld mobs or low difficulty content that is between 70 and 80 just isn't that significant.

[Crater]

If you use TBN on a dungeon boss and it doesn't break, that means that you took 24.999% (or less) of your max HP in damage. That means that the absolute maximum amount of damage that could be mitigated by Sheltron or Raw Intuition is 4.999% of your max HP. That's absolutely negligible.

It also isn't as though you weren't rewarded in some way for the MP expenditure: If you use TBN and the shield doesn't break, then that means that you were mitigating 100% of all incoming damage, as though you had Hallowed Ground on a 15 second cooldown. No, that's not worth the lost potency, but it also isn't nothing.

More importantly, though: Dungeon bosses are chock full of "tankbusters" that deal between 30 and 60% of your max HP. TBN is better than 80% mitigation against an attack that deals 30% of your max HP, and it's more than 40% mitigation against an attack that deals 60% of your max HP.

I'd say that's more than an appropriate reward for the risk you take in using the skill, even in casual dungeon content.

[Nedkel]

snip

Pretty much everything you have wrote is 100% accurate.
Tbn is best mitigation spell in the game, people who complain about it should simply learn to play and git gut.

Its one of the best and diverse thing drk actually has, keep his indentity away from silly ideas.

[ColdestHeaven]

I wouldn't really touch TBN, of all things, aside from maybe making it similar to what was defined as the Excogitation treatment or a partial MP restore to reduce the punishment. But TBN is, right now, the most important and powerful skill of the DRK - and the reason I like it so much is that it has a short CD, meaning its use is flexible, and I can use it to save others too and contributing to reducing damage on the main tank while still dishing damage. It's the one thing that no one has, why would you give THIS up?

The real issue with DRK isn't TBN, as I keep saying in these topics, is the fact that outside of TBN your CDs are quite lackluster. Also, the Living Dead issue. I wonder if it'd be possible if Living Dead was removed and Living Shadow reworked, and Living Shadow was the actual invulnerability instead of taking the Blood Gauge resource. Well, assuming they would remove the time it takes for the shadow to manifest - otherwise it'd be quite laughable. I like Living Dead's concept of going beyond your limits out of sheer defiance towards the enemy, and paying the price, but as things are right now it can't work without discomfort. DRKs similarly to GNBs have the worst kit to self-regen, so why they would make it the only class that requires a healing spike to survive is beyond me. At least GNB doesn't instantly die. Maybe another kind of punishment for using it could be dealt in the form of a reduced HP pool for a while, similarly to how the weakness debuff worked previously. It still is a big deal, but at least it's not a healer's nightmare/a death sentence for the tank.

[TheRealQuah]

Look at it this way:

If you use nascent flash, heart of stone or sheltron you’re only benefiting from it.

If you use it “wrong” you may not get as much benefit out of it but worst case scenario you get no mitigation and the skill goes on cooldown (or you wasted gauge in sheltron’s case but gauge isn’t spent on anything better so it’s basically the same). If you use it right you mitigate a lot of damage.

With TBN if you use it “wrong” you don’t get as much benefit and you lose dps, if you use it right you mitigate a lot of damage.

See the problem? There’s no reward over the other tanks for using it right, but there’s extra penalisation for using it “wrong”. It’s a cooldown, using it “wrong” should be penalisation enough, it shouldn’t also punish you on top of that.

I understand wanting unique job mechanics, really I do, as a PLD i was very sad to see cover as our primary way to mitigate busters go with the expansion. But it’s not a unique job mechanic, it’s just extra punishing for no realistic benefit, there are better ways for TBN to be unique that actually make it more of a boon when used right, not just extra punishing when it’s not.

As an example, increase the cooldown to 25 seconds, but make it free of cost, remove the dark arts effect and add “if you break the shield it instantly resets the cooldown”. As a bonus.

Not this again. Learn when you need to use it. If you're incapable of that it's not the fault of the skill. Stop advocating for dumbing down classes to make it easier for poor players.

[TheRealQuah]

From my point of view the biggest problem of TBN is the 500p punishment, on SB was way better and fair since you only lose 140p, for one unique mechanic that DRK still have and make It overall worse.

TBN only "punishes" you for poor play.

Every class has a mechanic which "punishes" you for poor play. Shall we remove all of them. The game has already gone too far in the way of catering to bad players. Please no more.

[TheRealQuah]

Yes, it’s better, and in the highest end of content where it’s obvious deficiencies are mercilessly beaten out of it it does fine. But what about the other 99% of content in the game? In dungeons I’ve had bosses use stack mechanics on me and I soloed them with TBN and it still didn’t break, it’s kind of ridiculous.

My point being it doesn’t scale down well. You can argue “if you’re not taking enough damage to break it then it doesn’t matter” but that’s bs. If the other tanks are using their mitigation tools to reduce damage and DRK’s is TOO strong to even use it, then how is it better anymore?

THAT is why I say it needs to be adjusted to be less penalising OR have a scaled back second CD that shares a recast more in line with the other tanks skills to use when you can’t use TBN.

Job balance should be done around the highest level of content. Why do you care if you lose DPS in a dungeon because it doesn't break. It's a dungeon. Skills shouldn't be balanced around casual content, it's not difficult to see why that would be a bad idea.

[Fynlar]

I am down with the idea of making Dark Arts a free crit/dcrit since people seem to think TBN's amazing mitigation (considering how short of a cooldown it's on) isn't enough of a reward as it is.

Just, please, don't repeatedly stand in 100k+ damage aoes just for the sake of activating TBN. I've had a couple DRKs like this, and they're only slightly less irritating than the BLMs that will never move out of their Ley Lines no matter what.

[ashwich]

I am down with the idea of making Dark Arts a free crit/dcrit since people seem to think TBN's amazing mitigation (considering how short of a cooldown it's on) isn't enough of a reward as it is.

Just, please, don't repeatedly stand in 100k+ damage aoes just for the sake of activating TBN. I've had a couple DRKs like this, and they're only slightly less irritating than the BLMs that will never move out of their Ley Lines no matter what.

you can't realistically expect people to not stand in aoe every chance they get to pop TBN, if it's made DPS positive. That's the reason you can't reward TBN with damage.

[shao32]

TBN only "punishes" you for poor play.

Every class has a mechanic which "punishes" you for poor play. Shall we remove all of them. The game has already gone too far in the way of catering to bad players. Please no more.

Can you please point where i say they should remove It? I just say 5% of extra shield at the increase of 360p to the punishment was pretty harsh and the old 20% 140p punishment was way better and acceptable.