Which rule states that parses can't be posted in chat?

[Astrus]

k

The first part is false. Posting DPS #s itself is not proof of use of a tool.
[snip]

You are correct.
However, GMs - from everything we've been told about how they operate - base their decisions solely on what happens in the game.
They have no way of knowing what programs you're running outside of the game. They have no definitive way of knowing if you parse.
As such, when you post DPS numbers you provide circumstantial evidence that you obtained these numbers by running a parser.
You could have gotten those numbers any number of ways that do not involve you yourself running a parser, they won't know and they very likely won't care.
If someone reports you for providing DPS numbers and if a GM looks into the chat logs and considers you to be parsing you'll eat whatever action they take against your account and there won't be a thing you can do about it.
Arguing that you got the numbers from a stream, a friend who parses or calculated them yourself is very likely not going to fly. The only thing that might work is being a PS4-only account where parsing is just plain impossible.

Again, technically you are right that having access to parses does not equate having a parser running but arguing technicalities with the GM staff has a very low chance of success, just look at how well that goes over when people appeal forum infractions.

If you want to avoid being considered a parser it's best to keep any discussion of parses to out of game channels where the GM staff has no interest or jurisdiction no matter whether you are actually parsing or not.

GM action is not a court trial and at the end of the day they can decide pretty much any way they like based on the evidence provided in the game.

[UnrealTai]

Slander in business practice is actually illegal however when dealing with customers, so if youre saying GMs do that it actually could get them in legal trouble. While I highly doubt someone will, the new TOS is sure to bring about that “one” person “eventually” who brings light to something like this to media who eventually starts highlighting it everywhere just like they did for the 18 hour boss fight in ffxi and SE had to publically apologize and change its entire dynamic. GMs doing that puts them in very high risk unless that person admitted to the use of a utility.

Youre right though its not a court trial, but when a business is violating human rights of people, the slander, especially when theyre not even employees of it, it sure can become one. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a lawsuit.

It doesnt surprise me GMs would do this though honestly, but there is definitely legalities here if so.

[YojimboM]

It falls under the rules section:

Posting for posterity:

Behaviour that disrupts the game balance
Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.
- Exploiting Square Enix programming bugs or glitches.
- Automating gameplay processes.

The Game Master (GM) may speak to players to investigate and confirm “absentee” play, and if the player continues with this behaviour, contrary to the GM's instructions, this will be treated as “absentee” play and subject to penalties. The following behaviour is also prohibited.

-----

Parsers totally fall into either/or:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.

- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

As Parsers, by design, analyze data (logs) and since the read data in real time they are utilities that interact with the game.

So, reading the combat log is against the TOS? :thinking:

You do realize there is a physical chat window within the game that contains the combat log information, right?

The only reason ACT is prohibited is due to the fact that it's a third-party program that interacts with the game, the second part of the clause. That clause is aimed at prohibiting botting software, which obviously interact with the game as well. The data that the TOS is referring to are the actual data files of the game itself, it's in reference to things like modifying the game or running scripts and hacks. It has nothing to do with "analyzing log data".

[YojimboM]

You are risking being banned or actioned upon by posting or using information from a parse. The TOS specifically states you can have your service access revoked at any time by the provider and while it's within your right to try and dispute any of that, you are highly unlikely to get your account unbanned and at the very best might get your money back for the purchase of the game.

People love to try and find loopholes so they can say "well.. THIS isn't specifically said, it should be OK". They have stated using parsers is not OK. If you're using a game of telephone to get that information it doesn't save you. Just DON'T do it. What you talk about between friends or not on the forums is your own business, just don't be surprised if trying to skirt rules gets you actioned anyway.

Never heard of a single person getting full-on banned for running ACT or posting a parse. If a ban happens, it would be because the person is harassing someone, and that's what the infraction would be for. They might slap on a TPS infraction at the same time, but that's not why they'd take an action.

Basically, don't harass people, parsing or not.

[Kaedan]

Slander in business practice is actually illegal however when dealing with customers, so if youre saying GMs do that it actually could get them in legal trouble. While I highly doubt someone will, the new TOS is sure to bring about that “one” person “eventually” who brings light to something like this to media who eventually starts highlighting it everywhere just like they did for the 18 hour boss fight in ffxi and SE had to publically apologize and change its entire dynamic. GMs doing that puts them in very high risk unless that person admitted to the use of a utility.

Youre right though its not a court trial, but when a business is violating human rights of people, the slander, especially when theyre not even employees of it, it sure can become one. Slander is a civil wrong (tort) and can be the basis for a lawsuit.

It doesnt surprise me GMs would do this though honestly, but there is definitely legalities here if so.

1) There's no slander involved at all. When a GM bans you from the game for parsing (whether you actually did or not), they do not announce it publicly and they do not in any way attempt to mar the player's reputation. Thus, no slander.

2) SE has complete and utter authority over their licenses. There is nothing illegal at all about them banning a player, regardless of circumstances. In fact, in the ToS, it essentially states they can remove a player's privileges at their discretion.

Now, if you believe you were wrongfully banned, you can appeal to SE's customer service. And if CS doesn't decide in your favor, you could attempt to sue SE for the cost of the game, but that's it. And you would end up paying far more in legal fees than you would ever get back from suing them. But even if you were to win your lawsuit, SE has no obligation to restore your account.

[Penthea]

Never heard of a single person getting full-on banned for running ACT or posting a parse. If a ban happens, it would be because the person is harassing someone, and that's what the infraction would be for. They might slap on a TPS infraction at the same time, but that's not why they'd take an action.

Basically, don't harass people, parsing or not.

Actually a few weeks before ShB launch someone in these forums made a thread saying that they got a temporary ban for posting parse results. A player in their party asked them for dps numbers, they posted it in the chat, and not long afterwards they got the ban. According to that person there was zero harassment, but they got a ban anyway. Perhaps because it wasn't also a harassment issue that meant they got only a temporary ban.

[YojimboM]

1) There's no slander involved at all. When a GM bans you from the game for parsing (whether you actually did or not), they do not announce it publicly and they do not in any way attempt to mar the player's reputation. Thus, no slander.

2) SE has complete and utter authority over their licenses. There is nothing illegal at all about them banning a player, regardless of circumstances. In fact, in the ToS, it essentially states they can remove a player's privileges at their discretion.

Now, if you believe you were wrongfully banned, you can appeal to SE's customer service. And if CS doesn't decide in your favor, you could attempt to sue SE for the cost of the game, but that's it. And you would end up paying far more in legal fees than you would ever get back from suing them. But even if you were to win your lawsuit, SE has no obligation to restore your account.

That person is grossly misinterpreting the usage of the legal term "slander". Also, SE is a Japanese company, and knowing only US law personally (which can change drastically between even judicial districts within the same state), I would assume that their laws are probably a bit different than ours.

You are correct about all of this. SE has absolute control over game content, including accounts. You can't even sue SE over revoking your account access, actually. Essentially, SE is renting you their account and a license for the game and it can be taken away at any time they'd choose to. This is how game companies protect themselves from being sued left and right for all sorts of idiotic things.

[YojimboM]

Actually a few weeks before ShB launch someone in these forums made a thread saying that they got a temporary ban for posting parse results. A player in their party asked them for dps numbers, they posted it in the chat, and not long afterwards they got the ban. According to that person there was zero harassment, but they got a ban anyway. Perhaps because it wasn't also a harassment issue that meant they got only a temporary ban.

"full-on banned". A temporary suspension isn't a ban. The person I was replying to was making it out as if you would lose everything by simply even running ACT while you were playing ("you are highly unlikely to get your account unbanned and at the very best might get your money back for the purchase of the game").

If I had to take a guess, someone in the party didn't like the numbers they saw from themselves and decided they were going to report that disgusting person who made them feel bad about themselves indirectly. So, when they wrote up the report, they probably did some spiel to the GM about feeling upset over it, and the GM they got happened to be a bleeding heart type or maybe a rule-interpreting overachiever and decided to hit them with an infraction for TPS.

Anyways, this is by far the exception to the case, ACT has been in use in this game for its entire existence and if people were actually getting real bans over it then it would be heard about far more and there'd be more push to get it allowed.

[Penthea]

"full-on banned". A temporary suspension isn't a ban.

You might want to rephrase that as a "permanent ban" if this is what you mean. I thought you meant a full-on ban as in you could not log in, as opposed to something like a GM jail where you still have access to the game, but you're suspended from actually playing it in a real way.

If I had to take a guess, someone in the party didn't like the numbers they saw from themselves

If I recall correctly the OP of that thread claimed it was done through whisper channels. They made a habit of doing this with many players they came across and one of them used his willingness to post numbers to bait him into admitting that he uses parsers, and then reported him.

It sucks that the OP was only nicely doing what that player asked for, but it goes to show that you can't assume that just because someone personally requests parser data in private that it means they won't report you for parser use. Some people will troll in any way they can, and maybe some hate parsers enough to do that sort of thing. It's safer to just not ever share any trace of parser use in game.

[Gula]

How about we just apply common sense to this.

Yeah, some people do things against the law. In some cases they know how to get away with it. But you shouldn't go out and talk within earshot of a cop about how much you're breakin' the law.