SE needs to do more to help bad players

[Wavaryen]

Lots of pages, but I'm just going to put my two cents on this subject as a baddie .

Content that is force on players to get through storyline should stay easy. Telling players to get good, or wanting to get better is silly. MMOs are design for all types of players, some players don't really care to get better. We have no right to judge them when they are doing content they are force to do in story. Now if they are doing tough content that requires them to be better, and they know they are bad. Ya, they should not be doing that content and I can understand why people get upset.


Myself, I just play have fun. If I don't like skills a class has, I don't care if it is better dps or not. I won't use them. If a aoe rotation is clunky, I just won't use it. That is me, and noone pays for my account and has no right to tell me to do it unless I am doing content that is not forced on me to keep on with the story.


Also does this game not have tools for you to get around this problem? Make friends with people and make your own groups like in the old days? I might be old fashion in thinking this, but the convenience of push to play content comes at the cost of quality control of the players. So even I can't blame the bad players like myself too much.

[DavidIven]

Lots of pages, but I'm just going to put my two cents on this subject as a baddie .

Content that is force on players to get through storyline should stay easy. Telling players to get good, or wanting to get better is silly. MMOs are design for all types of players, some players don't really care to get better. We have no right to judge them when they are doing content they are force to do in story. Now if they are doing tough content that requires them to be better, and they know they are bad. Ya, they should not be doing that content and I can understand why people get upset.


Myself, I just play have fun. If I don't like skills a class has, I don't care if it is better dps or not. I won't use them. If a aoe rotation is clunky, I just won't use it. That is me, and noone pays for my account and has no right to tell me to do it unless I am doing content that is not forced on me to keep on with the story.


Also does this game not have tools for you to get around this problem? Make friends with people and make your own groups like in the old days? I might be old fashion in thinking this, but the convenience of push to play content comes at the cost of quality control of the players. So even I can't blame the bad players like myself too much.

is this another type of "you dont pay my sub" lol?

[Wavaryen]

is this another type of "you dont pay my sub" lol?

Sorta? I see both sides, and that is 100 percent true. Players can play how they want and if they don't want to get better they won't. It is logical.

[xbahax92]

Myself, I just play have fun. If I don't like skills a class has, I don't care if it is better dps or not. I won't use them. If a aoe rotation is clunky, I just won't use it. That is me, and noone pays for my account and has no right to tell me to do it unless I am doing content that is not forced on me to keep on with the story.

And do you pay my sub? Taking 30min for an instance is quite a lot for FF14 standards, why should I accept that someone is slowing down the whole group? Some dont even care to read their tooltips, so why should it be "ok" to let bad players be bad players?
Its not like you dont save yourself some time when the dungeon is done fast, no? And I am not talking about speedruns, but average instance fights should take 20min at most.
Beside, I dont really expect anything from players that have the green leaf next to their name, they should still be respected being new players. But someone who's playing FFXIV for a while now or has returned after a long while should actually check their rotation.

[Wavaryen]

And do you pay my sub? Taking 30min for an instance is quite a lot for FF14 standards, why should I accept that someone is slowing down the whole group? Some dont even care to read their tooltips, so why should it be "ok" to let bad players be bad players?
Its not like you dont save yourself some time as well when the dungeon is done, no? And I am not talking about speedruns, but average instance fights should take 20min at most.
Beside, I dont really expect anything from players that have the green leaf next to their name, they should still be respected being new players. But someone who's playing FFXIV for a while now or has returned after a long while should actually check their rotation.

Because you have no say in it? You used a convenience tool for the system to make you a group. Your fun being ruined for my own is not going to make me lose sleep. You losing time, again same. I don't have this problem because they add a trust system I used now and can go at my own pace. But what I am stating is that bad players being bad players is ok in my book as long as they are having fun. If taking longer to do something is that much of a problem. I would make friends and do premade groups. You have that option.



This is a war that you can't win. You can't force people to play better. I have plenty friends who don't care how bad they play, and have tons of fun even being bad. I respect that.

Making content harder won't make them play better. It will just mean your time gets more wasted when they join your group.

[Seraphor]

Because you have no say in it? You used a convenience tool for the system to make you a group. Your fun being ruined for my own is not going to make me lose sleep. You losing time, again same. I don't have this problem because they add a trust system I used now and can go at my own pace. But what I am stating is that bad players being bad players is ok in my book as long as they are having fun. If taking longer to do something is that much of a problem. I would make friends and do premade groups. You have that option.



This is a war that you can't win. You can't force people to play better. I have plenty friends who don't care how bad they play, and have tons of fun even being bad. I respect that.

Making content harder won't make them play better. It will just mean your time gets more wasted when they join your group.

This.

You are not entitled to a quick run.
You're using a matchmaking system to pair up with other players, all players are entitled to the same experience, and like all things, you will go at the pace of your slowest member.
This is a gamble you take when you use duty finder, and your choice to leave if you wish.
Don't want to take that risk, use party finder.

[Nyvara]

This.

You are not entitled to a quick run.
You're using a matchmaking system to pair up with other players, all players are entitled to the same experience, and like all things, you will go at the pace of your slowest member.
This is a gamble you take when you use duty finder, and your choice to leave if you wish.
Don't want to take that risk, use party finder.

This^

We are talking about MSQ dungeons acquired in the duty finder and folks are getting crazy about Kicking the bads and bad this or bad that. Save all that crazy for the high end things. As I have said in a thread like this more than once. I can expect people to have high standards in expert/savage content. But for normal? you need to lower your standards.

For pete's sake don't go kicking folks in quest dungeons because they are not performing to your standards. That's a real crappy thing to do.

[SturmChurro]

This^

We are talking about MSQ dungeons acquired in the duty finder and folks are getting crazy about Kicking the bads and bad this or bad that. Save all that crazy for the high end things. As I have said in a thread like this more than once. I can expect people to have high standards in expert/savage content. But for normal? you need to lower your standards.

For pete's sake don't go kicking folks in quest dungeons because they are not performing to your standards. That's a real crappy thing to do.

No. I am tired of this crud, MAYBE low level with sprouts I can have some patience, but when we are at SHB and dps still outright refuse to use any kind of aoe, or have ANY situational awareness, and end up being a complete and utter detriment to their team is when they need to be kicked.

Things like this in my own personal experience is completely unacceptable:





This shouldn't be tolerated, we are people "behind the screen" too.

[IBLazORI]

No. I am tired of this crud, MAYBE low level with sprouts I can have some patience, but when we are at SHB and dps still outright refuse to use any kind of aoe, or have ANY situational awareness, and end up being a complete and utter detriment to their team is when they need to be kicked.

Things like this in my own personal experience is completely unacceptable:





This shouldn't be tolerated, we are people "behind the screen" too.

I feel your frustration, was leveling a tank with a friend. The RDM in our group was doing incredibly low dps, like incredibly low. While also dying to almost every mechanic.
This was the level 71 dungeon (Hemlich switch ?sp) A dungeon that should take around 20 minutes ended up talking almost an hour. It was so frustrating. They weren't doing AOEs, or even a proper rotation. If a AOE was placed on them, they would stop casting, do the slow turn around, and walk out of the aoe. When i mean walk out, i mean get hit and die.

I'm also feeling this frustration in Eden normal, these are the same group of people excited for savage but don't understand countdowns/stack mechanics. It's going to be frustrating trying to clear savage with a PUG group (Since i do not have time to commit to a static) when they have fun dying from the same thing over and over again and saying "relax it's just a game" , i agree its just a game, but they are wasting other peoples time.

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, maybe they get tunnel vision and just stare at their hotbar? And theres no guiding them during the raid/dungeon because they don't pay attention to chat when they are alive.
Could they introduce more mandatory Guildhests at higher levels? Maybe solo guildhests with the more "difficult" mechanics that they can't enter content without clearing that first?

[Alucard135]

Because you have no say in it? You used a convenience tool for the system to make you a group. Your fun being ruined for my own is not going to make me lose sleep. You losing time, again same. I don't have this problem because they add a trust system I used now and can go at my own pace. But what I am stating is that bad players being bad players is ok in my book as long as they are having fun. If taking longer to do something is that much of a problem. I would make friends and do premade groups. You have that option.



This is a war that you can't win. You can't force people to play better. I have plenty friends who don't care how bad they play, and have tons of fun even being bad. I respect that.

Making content harder won't make them play better. It will just mean your time gets more wasted when they join your group.

Can't say I disagree with this. Making MSQ stuff harder will only make me do it through PF just to avoid traps.

But one way I think that might help, is if they added rewards that everyone wants to harder content. As of now, you only get higher level gear/weapons or a mount with an abysmal drop rate. So what do bad players do? wait for it to be unsynced or when the ilvl is high that they can get away from messing up mechanics. And that's mostly done for EX trials, not the raids. For savage raids, they really don't care about being BiS and they already get similar gear for glamour from normal raids but undyeable (there was a thread long ago asking to make them dyeable). And if they really wanted that dyeable gear, they'd do it unsynced.

Eureka is the best example of how reward can get people to do something and put in the effort (I'm not arguing if Eureka is good or bad here lol). But, there are those that felt they were forced to it because they really wanted that relic, glamour, hairstyle, minion, mount etc. No one forced them to go through Eureka, but they did. Because they wanted those rewards. Now imagine if Eureka actually had challenge to it? You now have BA. Where those that really wanted Ozma mount put in the effort to get it.

So long story short, put good incentivising rewards in harder side content that would make someone actually want to learn and do it.