What the term "healer" means to me

[Deathroes]

Try clearing E4s without healers doing DPS, unless your dps and tanks are God tier levels, you will hit enraged every single time. Healer dps matters, not to say that's justification for harassment or for kicking people still learning the fight.

Wait, sorry I am still new to FF14, is not anything above a normal raid(like savage) progression raiding? I had thought it was. But yeah like I have said in my post, if the encounter is passed then nothing else matters...unless it was explicitly stated that it had to be done in so and so time. If it wasn't then that is just someone moving the goalpost.

If the healer not doing dps causes a group to fall to enrage then yes, it is a problem. Or it could be the dps doing a lackluster job, who knows. I am under the impression a healer SHOULD be doing "ABC" but would not hound someone who does not subscribe to that ideology...until we start failing encounters.

[Sebazy]

If the healer not doing dps causes a group to fall to enrage then yes, it is a problem. Or it could be the dps doing a lackluster job, who knows. I am under the impression a healer SHOULD be doing "ABC" but would not hound someone who does not subscribe to that ideology...until we start failing encounters.

Look at it this way.

Watch any current Titan Savage clear video on youtube. If you're a DPS with a week 1 E4S clear, you're not going to be lacklustre. It's a safe assumption that the healers are doing somewhere around 10-15% of the groups total combined DPS right now in these clears, this is verifiable with a quick browse through various logs.

If we use DRG as a reference point, the middle ground is about 12.5k, whereas the current record is 13.7k. As the tier progresses, people gear up and more groups get clears, this gap will widen but even so. That's still a pretty small gain from putting a ton of pressure on one of your DPS.

Do you know what else gains ~1.2k dps? Simply asking a non DPSing healer to maintain their dot on the boss. Without throwing a single Glare/Stone/Whatever, a healer can generate as much extra damage for the group with a single button press as it'd take that DRG going from top tier to literal world class.

Think about that for a moment next time you wade in blaming it all on the DPS.

As for Yoshi P.'s statement, I'll take your word for it. As of now I have no personal experience with endgame design, but from what I read on these forums what you say is true. We are talking about normal difficulty right?

Most discussions relating to this stuff will be referring to Savage. Normal modes and dungeons rarely have any form of enrage so yes, it really doesn't matter beyond the annoyance of wasting people's time.

I will note though, don't underestimate how much time a non DPSing healer can actually cost a group in casual content.

As an example. In a 14:33 run in the Twinning dungeon I still managed to contribute around 20% the groups overall damage as healer without taking liberties or playing it particularly risky. Had I not DPSed at all, that would have added a little shy of 3 minutes to the total run length. That's alongside people with multiple world firsts to their name. Throw in more typical DF DPS and it gets a whole lot worse.

[Deathroes]

Look at it this way.

Watch any current Titan Savage clear video on youtube. If you're a DPS with a week 1 E4S clear, you're not going to be lacklustre. It's a safe assumption that the healers are doing somewhere around 10-15% of the groups total combined DPS right now in these clears, this is verifiable with a quick browse through various logs.

If we use DRG as a reference point, the middle ground is about 12.5k, whereas the current record is 13.7k. As the tier progresses, people gear up and more groups get clears, this gap will widen but even so. That's still a pretty small gain from putting a ton of pressure on one of your DPS.

Do you know what else gains ~1.2k dps? Simply asking a non DPSing healer to maintain their dot on the boss. Without throwing a single Glare/Stone/Whatever, a healer can generate as much extra damage for the group with a single button press as it'd take that DRG going from top tier to literal world class.

Think about that for a moment next time you wade in blaming it all on the DPS.

Hence my "who knows" at the end of that sentence lmao. I didnt claim it was defintely the fault of the dps that a boss enraged and caused a wipe, merely it was a possibilty. I am not omniscient, I don't know what goes on in every single raid encounter that ever happened, and neither do you. At the end of the day, everyone is different in terms of skills.

I am mostly basing my assumptions on Yoshi P. saying that healer dps is not taken into account when designing an encounter. But hey, if his teams' choices do not corroborate his statement, then yeah healers need to dps.

Also let me just make my stance clear. I think healers should always be dpsing if everyone is healthy, not overhealing, not standing around, not just being a waste of a party slot. Yes, a healer that dpses is the easiest way to make up for any damage discrepancies between a top tier dps and a world class one, I agree. I am just trying to be in the middle of the "healer dpsing debate", but I stray waaaaaaay over to the dps side.

[Sebazy]

I am mostly basing my assumptions on Yoshi P. saying that healer dps is not taken into account when designing an encounter. But hey, if his teams' choices do not corroborate his statement, then yeah healers need to dps.

The biggest problem with going from Yoshi statements (tm) is that they are usually taken in far to literal a manner. The context and sidenotes get buried and people quickly view it as a black and white, right or wrong argument. The reality isn't anything like that and even Yoshida himself acknowledges this in some of his interviews. It's just that when people use that statement to try and back their views on this topic. They typically don't show that part of the quote

The actual reality is much more nuanced than these forums would often like to admit.