Lack of End Game Content

[Zabuza]

This is my last post on this thread. This statement is absurd. Nobody defines what end game is except the player themselves. The player defines what they choose to do when they hit max level not some other guy with an opinion on what it should be. This is not WoW. There is plenty of content to do outside of raiding and it shows in how SE continues to develop content. You may not like this and thats fine. Don't try to jam your opinion down anothers throat though. You can't control anything in this world. Live it. Learn it. Love it.

I just don't understand. We established long ago that the OP was talking about challenging endgame battle content. So why are you guys still trying to argue over what constitutes endgame? If you think that doing sightseeing logs at level 80 is endgame, whatever. That's not what the OP is asking for. Does anyone want to address the ACTUAL topic instead of continuously trying to derail the thread into meaningless prattle? It's easier to put endgame in the title than 'challenging battle content at max level.'

[Kaylessa]

I just don't understand. We established long ago that the OP was talking about challenging endgame battle content. So why are you guys still trying to argue over what constitutes endgame? If you think that doing sightseeing logs at level 80 is endgame, whatever. That's not what the OP is asking for. Does anyone want to address the ACTUAL topic instead of continuously trying to derail the thread into meaningless prattle? It's easier to put endgame in the title than 'challenging battle content at max level.'

Because certain people aren't interested in discussing the topic, they're interested in pushing an agenda. And a futile one at that.

[Kaedan]

I play for about 3-4 hours per night. Here's what I did last night to "keep busy"

-Leveling Roulette (AST. I would have leveled AST as my first healer, but I was waiting for 5.05 to see if they would get fixed)
-Alliance Raid Roulette (DRG. NIN got shafted in the last patch, so leveling my second favorite melee DPS)
-Expert Roulette (yummy Phantasmagora tomes)
-50/60/70 Roulette (normally don't do this, but trying to get my "Tank you GNB" achieves done)
-Ananta and Kojin Beast quests (finished all my crafters to 70+, so only do Namazu for the ventures if I have time)
-ES1 Savage
-Couple of runs of Titania and Innocence EX (slowly building tokens to buy the mounts later if I need them)

That's more or less what I do most nights, with a little variation. For example, two nights ago, I farmed Thordan EX for the mount which I had never bothered to farm before.

[savageink]

Because certain people aren't interested in discussing the topic, they're interested in pushing an agenda. And a futile one at that.

I stopped posting on this awhile ago because it was redundant. But really, at this point haven't you figured out that everytime you post how factual everything you say is, it's bait for people to disagree with you? Or are you trolling?

[Kaylessa]

I stopped posting on this awhile ago because it was redundant. But really, at this point haven't you figured out that everytime you post how factual everything you say is, it's bait for people to disagree with you? Or are you trolling?

Whenever someone invents their own definition of endgame and make a post based on that, they may not be aware of it but they're contributing to the derailing of the thread. Which has happened since pretty much the first page.

By getting people to stick to the community's definition of endgame, the ACTUAL definition of endgame, the definition people have been using for over a decade (which the OP has followed,) I have tried (futilely) to get people to stay on topic. This hasn't worked fully but there has been an improvement imo. If only by a little.

[linay]

Does anyone want to address the ACTUAL topic instead of continuously trying to derail the thread into meaningless prattle? It's easier to put endgame in the title than 'challenging battle content at max level.'

What do you think still needs to be addressed about the topic that hasn't been said somewhere in the last 1000 or so posts?

[savageink]

Whenever someone invents their own definition of endgame and make a post based on that, they may not be aware of it but they're contributing to the derailing of the thread. Which has happened since pretty much the first page.

By getting people to stick to the community's definition of endgame, the ACTUAL definition of endgame, the definition people have been using for over a decade (which the OP has followed,) I have tried (futilely) to get people to stay on topic. This hasn't worked fully but there has been an improvement imo. If only by a little.

What actually has happened is the definition of endgame has been debated for at least 10 years. Some people think that MMO design is actually hampered by the reliance on the WoW formula. Probably including the FFXIV designers who removed gear and level from PvP specifically because you can't rank anybody in a skill challenge if they go into it with an advantage. Grinding your gear may make you win but it doesn't make you suck less in a level playing field.

Anyway, feel free to continue saying things are set in stone that are not.

[Kaylessa]

What actually has happened is the definition of endgame has been debated for at least 10 years. Some people think that MMO design is actually hampered by the reliance on the WoW formula. Probably including the FFXIV designers who removed gear and level from PvP specifically because you can't rank anybody in a skill challenge if they go into it with an advantage. Grinding your gear may make you win but it doesn't make you suck less in a level playing field.

Anyway, feel free to continue saying things are set in stone that are not.

The debate over the definition of endgame has been whether it refers to all content introduced at max level, or only the very hardest content introduced at max level. The content been put forward as "endgame" in this topic is content that has never been regarded as end game content, and so can be freely discarded. Endgame is an MMO concept, the MMO community decides the definition not three or four people in this thread.

The reliance on WoW formula has little to do with this topic.

[Zabuza]

What do you think still needs to be addressed about the topic that hasn't been said somewhere in the last 1000 or so posts?

I mean, ideally there could be suggestions about how to improve this area of content. Constructive criticism. It seems pointless to continue arguing about whether things like level 80 Chocobo racing are considered endgame or not...This doesn't really help anything. The discussion has probably run its course at this point. But I would want to keep it visible for the devs to see.

[Hanzar]

Zabuza and Kaylessa, you both can also stop playing the game if you don't feel happy about the current state of it. It is ok to take a break.

Now to answer your both questions about endgame content, over the past years FFXIV has always been a slowburner in terms of story, content and such. Since I think Havensward they always come out with 1 wing 8 man with 4 bosses Normal and 4-5 bosses Savage. Then the patch after they come out with the 24 man raid which will take maybe a few hours to complete. Later on you will then have the Relic questline, which might be the thing you both are after.

Relic questlines are long, grindy and takes effort and skill (sometimes) to complete. And relic weapons and gear tend to be the second or thirdbest gear you can get in the game. So my advice would be to quit the game and come back when the relic questlines are in the game. People suspect it might come during 5.1 or 5.2.

FFXIV is not WoW. Nor will it ever be like WoW. FFXIV does not demand you login everyday to do grinds unless you have a personal goal for it. (Beast tribes daily grind to get glamour, mounts or story, and emotes)
Now also how to improve endgame content, well if you look at numbers and how many people do raids. You might be surprised to see most people only run normal 8 man once or twice and then they are off to do other things. This is the core playerbase. From now on I will call them core.

The core is the lifeblood of this game. Not the hardcore raiders. The core is what buy items in the cashshops, buys special editions, merch, Alpha plushie (serious I pay an arm and a leg for one!) etc. And how do you keep the core happy? By giving them options. Such as Golden saucer and its massive amounts of content, Hildy questline, glamour contests, Housing, treasure maps, mount hunting, hunts, card collection, chocobo breeding, mahjong, level other jobs, play music in the major cities, roleplaying, achivment hunting (Some achivments are very hard and time consuming to get but you do tend to get nifty items), FC events, crafting, Side quests. I mgiht have missed some. But these thing I posted here is the cores endgame content.

From my understanding you two want more raidlike endgame content? Of course correct me if I am wrong there. But this is not the game for such things. You get a raid every 3-3.5 months And that is it. And more expert dungeons thrown in of course, and new items. You could try PvP and start a ranked group. PvP has rewards that can only be gotten as a pvper such as a robotic flying horse mount! (I have one of them it is amazing!)

But I understand that frustration that you reach the end of Shb and see lack of content which you are used to in other games. Which is fine to feel like that. But you do well to remember that FFXIV design is built around the core. Keep the core happy and the game will keep growing. And sometimes you need to find your own endgame, maybe try to find where Alpha is hiding in the game this week, I ones found him in Mor Dohna. Make a contest finding him in the FC.

But ym bottomline here is, FFXIV has endgame content for many different types of people. Sure some will not see the things I listed as endgame since it is not raiding or high end dungeons. But for people doing them it is endgame content.

My advice if you want to take it, is to take a break from the game. It is ok to take a break, I took a break mid stormblood and came back after 5 months felt good to come back with new energy

Have I understood your frustrations? Or did I misunderstand you both?