Lack of End Game Content

[Lunafreya]

So 14 hours after the raid released... lol. I'm sad. Grats to them but, I'm sad the raid was that easy that world firsts could clear it that fast.



Agreed, while WoW was a breath of life for casuals, it was the death knell of this genre of me. Now what I play are to me, shells of former MMO glory.

Hey man if it was that easy why haven't you cleared it yet? Just because top 3% of players clear it first week doesn't mean it is easy. I'm sure right now you would be struggling endlessly to even down the first three turns. It is even harder for players that have to manage real life time. Better yet... if you claim these are easy then have you cleared Ultimate coil or Ultima weapon? Point is stop spouting your nonsense that it was easy when in fact it is not.

[Zabuza]

Hey man if it was that easy why haven't you cleared it yet? Just because top 3% of players clear it first week doesn't mean it is easy. I'm sure right now you would be struggling endlessly to even down the first three turns. It is even harder for players that have to manage real life time. Better yet... if you claim these are easy then have you cleared Ultimate coil or Ultima weapon? Point is stop spouting your nonsense that it was easy when in fact it is not.

I have cleared turn 1 after a few hours last night, with pugs. I will definitely have cleared at least turn 2 by the end of this week, if not also 3. Also, I might as well just quote myself on this, since I guess you didn't read it.

Do you not understand my point that the amount of time it takes the worlds best to clear these things is an indicator of how long it will take everyone else? If your typical savage raider takes 10 times longer to clear than a world's best, it will take them 10 hours for this. If it took world's best raiders 5 hours to clear tiers 1 and 2, it would take a typical savage raider 50 hours to do the same. Of course there are slight variances, and I don't know the exact ratio, but my point is the correlation itself. World's best or not, the speed at which they cleared it does not speak well to the longevity where it will concern typical raiders.

[MonteCristo]

PSA- More concerned with the diversity of content than the difficulty itself. Difficulty doesnt = fun.....FUN = FUN

[Hawklaser]

I have cleared turn 1 after a few hours last night, with pugs. I will definitely have cleared at least turn 2 by the end of this week, if not also 3. Also, I might as well just quote myself on this, since I guess you didn't read it.

So if had to rate it on rehash vs new, and memory+Reflex(or any other potentially artificial challenge metric) vs actual challenge how would you rate it? I just go with memory+reflex as that seems to be their go to way to add more difficulty, shorter cast times/indicators necessitating more memorization of the boss script.

Curious as the more and more have looked at things its not that there is any more real challenge, just a need to perform at a higher level more consistently. Like a sport, the challenge of the sport itself never changes, but the player performance does. IE casual play amoung friends, high school varsity, college varsity, and pro. This model works great for PvP games as the skill of the opposing players provides the challenge, but not so much for PvE.

[Eli85]

PSA- More concerned with the diversity of content than the difficulty itself. Difficulty doesnt = fun.....FUN = FUN

You couldn't be more wrong. If something is a push-over, it gets boring really quickly. If something is challenging, engages your brain, makes you think tactically, that is fun. Outside of trolls, no one thinks non-difficult activities are actually fun.

[Zabuza]

So if had to rate it on rehash vs new, and memory+Reflex(or any other potentially artificial challenge metric) vs actual challenge how would you rate it? I just go with memory+reflex as that seems to be their go to way to add more difficulty, shorter cast times/indicators necessitating more memorization of the boss script.

Curious as the more and more have looked at things its not that there is any more real challenge, just a need to perform at a higher level more consistently. Like a sport, the challenge of the sport itself never changes, but the player performance does. IE casual play amoung friends, high school varsity, college varsity, and pro. This model works great for PvP games as the skill of the opposing players provides the challenge, but not so much for PvE.

It was more about memory to be honest. All of E1s mechanics followed a set pattern that simply had to be memorized. The only part of the fight that posed a slight challenge was meteor positioning. Most of this fight was mechanics that have been seen before. I think only the orb of light positioning during the meteor phases was a mechanic that slightly differed from any mechanic I had seen before.

[Mahoukenshi]

You couldn't be more wrong. If something is a push-over, it gets boring really quickly. If something is challenging, engages your brain, makes you think tactically, that is fun. Outside of trolls, no one thinks non-difficult activities are actually fun.

Aren't you full of yourself. It's not up to you to define fun for everyone else. I still decide for myself what's fun and what's not, no matter what you may think about it, about which I couldn't really care less. And for me: Story = fun, likable characters are fun. Challenge just for the sake of challenge = couldn't care less. So just because your brain cannot compute this doesn't make it a troll opinion.

[Eli85]

Aren't you full of yourself. It's not up to you to define fun for everyone else. I still decide for myself what's fun and what's not, no matter what you may think about it, about which I couldn't really care less. And for me: Story = fun, likable characters are fun. Challenge just for the sake of challenge = couldn't care less. So just because your brain cannot compute this doesn't make it a troll opinion.

Your sheer hatred on this topic is blinding you. Not once did I say that challenge and only challenge is fun. I find story immeasurably fun as well—it is the primary hook for me when playing video games. What I said, however, was that push-over content gets really boring, really quickly. Which is, arguably, an objective stance to take. What possible thrill or excitement is there when you engage an enemy and there is less than 1% chance of you dying? It's not. At all. The possibility of losing is the only thing that keeps things fun and engaging. That's how our brains work.


Want to start shedding players? Make your content brainless and easy mode. Before you or anyone else says anything, I am not advocating Ultimate difficulty in every facet of the game. WildStar is a graveyard for a reason. But there is a middle ground, where people can be actively engaged. Pushover content is not that.

[Tint]

Not once did I say that challenge and only challenge is fun.

Outside of trolls, no one thinks non-difficult activities are actually fun.

Well... o.ô;

[Eli85]

Well... o.ô;

Do I really have to explain this?


Cut scenes, dialogue with NPCs, plot unfolding — you know, the primary elements of story — are a difficulty agnostic activity (and thus are segregated from difficulty activities that I am arguing). All of this I'm fairly certain that you (and others) are well aware of.