Customizable pronouns

[TheMightyMollusk]

My preferred pronoun is motherf--

[zeylos]

I dont understand how for ppl in the USA is so difficult to just call somebody they if they want to

[Gwenorai]

I'll keep going with my stance.
Why are you trying to force stuff of our world into the game's world?
Do you have so little respect for other cultures? This attitude reminds me of America's Colonization.

The sad part about this is that this seems to be going from an English only standpoint. I have yet to see any of them come up with a solution on how this would work in languages who may have different words/meanings. Or if they even have an official neutral term that fits well in dialogue. Like how someone brought up they/them - how in English that's actually more common to use when you're addressing a group and not an individual. Zero thought going into it other than the western viewpoint of English speakers.

I'm from bloody England and I know more than enough that it's not easy to just add in some random option, it has to flow correctly, otherwise, the delivery suffers.

[Cled-cat]

How is it a scare tactic when it's the truth. You did not state which genders are to be chosen. You can't stomp your feet and go 'no, you can't bring those up' when we both know said people are also in this community. Nor can you act like I'm being an arse for bringing it up. Draw a line. Simple.

You can then deal with the people who have those weird tumblr pronouns and say how you don't agree with them and have a proper discussion. Far as I'm concerned those are mentally ill individuals, just like gender dysphoria is a mental illness that can often result in adverse effects on one's mental state, even after going through various treatments to align with the sex they desire. And the argument for this is that society doesn't make room for them, yet this does nothing to aid in that plight. All it does is show you personally that pronoun change - it does not show anyone else outside what your pronoun is, so they're just going to say the wrong pronoun anyway. That's what happens when your avatar is either male or female and has no in-between.

I didn’t stomp my feet and say you “can’t” bring it up, I just pointed out why it’s not really relevant to this specific thread. If you’ve already lumped in those identities as a whole community with no discrepancy you’ve already backed yourself into a corner. Remember the time there were Peadophiles trying to put themselves in the LGBT+ community? Yeah, that didn’t work out so well did it. It’s at best ignorant and, at worst, callous of you to assume ALL non conforming identities are equal. No one has said that here. This conversation is about non-binary, so gender NEUTRAL, not rabies gender or other true nonsense.

You seem really worked up and defensive, I didn’t call or imply you’re an arse at all, I just responded to what you said and why it’s a very big reach in this threads desire for NON-BINARY pronouns. The line was drawn at the very beginning, but you’ve seemed to ignore that, and also clearly didn’t read my response well, as I drew the line in this thread AT non binary.

[Doozer]

The way people in this thread approach and treat just the very concept of nonbinary people make me really reluctant to post here anymore. To be told "hm yeah your gender is [this] but I see you as [that] so that's what I'm going to call you so there" and claim that because there's so few nonbinary people in the overall population that literally anything we ask for isn't worth it. To be seen as someone with so little value hurts a lot. Must be fun to be part of the majority all the time. Easy mode. Also, all the "hee haw I'm a computer/cat/whatever so respect my gender!!!" jokes are really cool and definitely not pulled from like 2012.

@ the OP, it would be cool to have 'they' pronouns as an option, even though I'm nb and use he/him. More options for character creation and uniqueness is always welcome, in my opinion.

[Cled-cat]

The sad part about this is that this seems to be going from an English only standpoint. I have yet to see any of them come up with a solution on how this would work in languages who may have different words/meanings. Or if they even have an official neutral term that fits well in dialogue. Like how someone brought up they/them - how in English that's actually more common to use when you're addressing a group and not an individual. Zero thought going into it other than the western viewpoint of English speakers.

See this is a point I agree with you on. We’ve only discussed the English side mostly, so you’re right, it’s not gonna be a realistic change at all unless it can be argued for every localisation. That’s a conversation to be had for sure.

[Siete]

I dont understand how for ppl in the USA is so difficult to just call somebody they if they want to

Simple, we're not 24/7 at 100% brain activity thinking everything we do, our brains have premade paths of neural thinking and reacting created by repetition repetition repetition and repetition. So we're mostly on automode, otherwise our brains would literally boil.
So, when we talk, much of what we spew is made by this auto-mode.
If you want people to use those "new" ways of reffering to someone, they have to get those neural patterns remade. Which by the way, it's quite taxing, energy demanding and mildly painful. Just like studying.
Basically, it's a huge effort, you should be enormously thankful to people who make such a titanic task as rewiring their neuronal network just so you hear the "right" word when they talk to you.

[Doozer]

Basically, it's a huge effort, you should be enormously thankful to people who make such a titanic task as rewiring their neuronal network just so you hear the "right" word when they talk to you.

I'm pretty sure it's only hard to call someone "they" if you're stubborn and refuse to change your ways. It's actually pretty easy. If you care enough about showing everyone the minimum amount of respect to call them the right name, pronouns, etc., then it's not hard. Saying it's too difficult shows a lack of respect under most circumstances (unless you have some sort of condition that may make such things more difficult, but most people don't).

[Gwenorai]

Snip

I do remember the whole MAP, situation. I simply don't think this is the place to open up this can of worms. My argument is this, why should the gender-neutral get something and not the others? That's the point I'm trying to make. As of such, I found it very much relevant. Do I wish them to have their pronouns, no, I don't agree with them. Do I agree with a neutral pronoun, yes, but it's most likely impossible with this game in regards to their code. This is why game such as cyberpunk and vampire masquerade should be celebrated because you can pick your pronoun/desired body, they don't care - it doesn't affect the gameplay. This, however, does affect the gameplay to an extent.

The negatives seem to outweigh the positives. As MMO, this is a QoL feature that will only be used by a certain few, yet take a large chunk of time in order to complete and then continue. We already have an issue with missing genders; where they have time constraints. This would be something else that would be needed to be added so they can meet their release dates. Even if it makes them smile to see the dialogue in the text stating their correct gender pronoun, this is then destroyed by voiced dialogue which will say male/female and the social aspect of the game where most people will use your avatars pronoun to address you. From what I've studied, seen and witnessed the adverse effects of this outweighs the pro in my opinion. And this can be seen in plenty of scientific documentation regarding the situation. You can indeed, give, but when you take at the same time it's emotionally draining. The same goes from switching from 'they/them' to 'he/she' in every other conversation.

[Cled-cat]

Simple, we're not 24/7 at 100% brain activity thinking everything we do, our brains have premade paths of neural thinking and reacting created by repetition repetition repetition and repetition. So we're mostly on automode, otherwise our brains would literally boil.
So, when we talk, much of what we spew is made by this auto-mode.
If you want people to use those "new" ways of reffering to someone, they have to get those neural patterns remade. Which by the way, it's quite taxing, energy demanding and mildly painful. Just like studying.
Basically, it's a huge effort, you should be enormously thankful to people who make such a titanic task as rewiring their neuronal network just so you hear the "right" word when they talk to you.

Wow, I haven’t heard that one before. I wonder how that applied for racists in the 50’s and 60’s, did their brains blow up from not being able to say the N-word anymore? I bet that rewiring of their brains was enormously difficult, we should be “enormously thankful” that they started to treat people with respect! Smh. Your “argument” is just a appeal to nature fallacy based on us humans apparently being hardwired machines with our languages and way we refer to each other instead of us actually having a mutable and adaptive understanding of words and their meanings, and how our language changes accordingly. Once there’s studies of friends and loved ones of trans relatives’s brain scans and the subsequent “rewiring” to accommodate the new pronouns, let me know!