Customizable pronouns

[Siete]

I'm pretty sure it's only hard to call someone "they" if you're stubborn and refuse to change your ways. It's actually pretty easy. If you care enough about showing everyone the minimum amount of respect to call them the right name, pronouns, etc., then it's not hard. Saying it's too difficult shows a lack of respect under most circumstances (unless you have some sort of condition that may make such things more difficult, but most people don't).

What makes you pretty sure of that?
Have you even read my post? Are you trying to prove wrong how the human brain works? I'd say pretty go inform yourself. It's not a matter of stubborness but learning. What you're asking for is a simple word but the word you're trying to change is something pretty hardcoded into the brain, using the "right" word every single time and out of the blue would incur the person to go into manual mode every single time until after some months or years the words come out natural. Going into manual mode for speech is hugely taxing as I said. Like giving a thesis presentation in front of important people.
You're asking a lot from people, what are you giving in return for such a favor?

[Doozer]

Wow, I haven’t heard that one before. I wonder how that applied for racists in the 50’s and 60’s, did their brains blow up from not being able to say the N-word anymore? I bet that rewiring of their brains was enormously difficult, we should be “enormously thankful” that they started to treat people with respect! Smh. Your “argument” is just a appeal to nature fallacy based on us humans apparently being hardwired machines with our languages and way we refer to each other instead of us actually having a mutable and adaptive understanding of words and their meanings, and how our language changes accordingly. Once there’s studies of friends and loved ones of trans relatives’s brain scans and the subsequent “rewiring” to accommodate the new pronouns, let me know!

This.

What makes you pretty sure of that?
Have you even read my post? Are you trying to prove wrong how the human brain works? I'd say pretty go inform yourself. It's not a matter of stubborness but learning. What you're asking for is a simple word but the word you're trying to change is something pretty hardcoded into the brain, using the "right" word every single time and out of the blue would incur the person to go into manual mode every single time until after some months or years the words come out natural. Going into manual mode for speech is hugely taxing as I said. Like giving a thesis presentation in front of important people.
You're asking a lot from people, what are you giving in return for such a favor?

"They" is part of English already, at least. I can't speak for others. If you can remember to call one friend "he" and not accidentally call your other friend "he" when that person uses "she", you can do the same with "they". It's like juggling; if you can juggle two things you can juggle three. It only requires a little bit of adapting and is not as difficult as learning how to do it in the first place.

And that last sentence is just disgusting. Saying I should do something for someone in order to receive the most basic of respect? I hope I never meet you or anyone like you in person.

[Cled-cat]

This. /10char

My phone is dying so I’m gonna be off this thread for tonight soon, probably a good thing judging by how the thread is going

[Doozer]

My phone is dying so I’m gonna be off this thread for tonight soon, probably a good thing judging by how the thread is going

Yeah. Some people here are pretty scummy and are not much of a joy to interact with. I've said my piece, so I'll let them be disrespectful and lacking empathy for other humans without me.

[Cled-cat]

I do remember the whole MAP, situation. I simply don't think this is the place to open up this can of worms. My argument is this, why should the gender-neutral get something and not the others? That's the point I'm trying to make. As of such, I found it very much relevant. Do I wish them to have their pronouns, no, I don't agree with them. Do I agree with a neutral pronoun, yes, but it's most likely impossible with this game in regards to their code. This is why game such as cyberpunk and vampire masquerade should be celebrated because you can pick your pronoun/desired body, they don't care - it doesn't affect the gameplay. This however does affect the gameplay to an extent.

The negatives seem to outweigh the positives. As MMO, this is a QoL feature that will only be used by a certain few, yet take a large chunk of time in order to complete and then continue. We already have an issue with missing genders; where they have time constraints. This would be something else that would be needed to be added so they can meet their release dates. Even if it makes them smile to see the dialogue in the text stating their correct gender pronoun, this is then destroyed by voiced dialogue which will say male/female and the social aspect of the game where most people will use your avatars pronoun to address you. From what I've studied, seen and witnessed the adverse effects of this does not outweigh the con. And this can be seen in plenty of scientific documentation regarding the situation. You can indeed, give, but when you take at the same time it's emotionally draining. The same goes from switching from 'they/them' to 'he/she' in every other conversation.

That’s definitely an interesting point. It’s pretty much a pipe-dream at this point to ask for sweeping changes to this established game already. The lack of consistency would be pretty off-putting yeah, so unless they did wanna go fully 100% in to adding extra voice overs to keep the immersion it is pretty unlikely. However I personally would be pretty happy with even just the text options, many non-binary people who ever get the rare acknowledgment of their preferred pronouns still feel super grateful for it, so that’s an argument to be had.

[Siete]

Wow, I haven’t heard that one before. I wonder how that applied for racists in the 50’s and 60’s, did their brains blow up from not being able to say the N-word anymore? I bet that rewiring of their brains was enormously difficult, we should be “enormously thankful” that they started to treat people with respect! Smh. Your “argument” is just a appeal to nature fallacy based on us humans apparently being hardwired machines with our languages and way we refer to each other instead of us actually having a mutable and adaptive understanding of words and their meanings, and how our language changes accordingly. Once there’s studies of friends and loved ones of trans relatives’s brain scans and the subsequent “rewiring” to accommodate the new pronouns, let me know!

There are no studies specific to "friends and loved ones of trans relatives’s brain scans and the subsequent “rewiring” to accommodate the new pronouns" that I know of, but hundreds of studies in parallel learnings which are pretty much the same. You should use google and find out how it works and what you're asking for to be done in an eye blink. We're indeed hardwired machines through life's experiences, which means that hardwiring can constantly change, at a cost of course, which I explicitly mentioned.
Also, why are you pulling the 50's 60's card here? That makes anything you say lose any value it could have.
If you want to play it that way, don't you find it amazing how much society changed in 50 years? FIFTY YEARS. It wasn't a day, a week or a month, it took FIFTY YEARS of PEOPLE WILLING TO CHANGE.
Yes, we should all be enormously thankful to all those who decided to make the titanic effort to change, go against the norm, risk their life and stop the racism you mention. If it wasn't for them, imagine the world we would live in today

[Granyala]

I was wondering if it might be possible to set different pronouns for written dialogue and system messages, either through the character creation process or something in the options menu? It would be a nice little bit of inclusion to have in the game.

Can we keep the gender confusion in the RL please?

It annoys the crap out of me that the human race even dignifies this nonsensical first world problem with so much attention (the human species only has 2 biological genders, end of story. Deal with it, none of us got to choose), I really don't need it to creep into fantasy worlds as well (though it's only a matter of time, as the indoctrination will continue until absolute conformity is enforced).

[Cled-cat]

Yeah. Some people here are pretty scummy and are not much of a joy to interact with. I've said my piece, so I'll let them be disrespectful and lacking empathy for other humans without me.

Most people here have been really quite civil, especially compared to the last big thread on non-binary options. My partner made the mistake of being too confrontational so that invited a whole host of trolls and pettiness, and that’s probably why it derailed so harshly into ad-hom and insults, but it’s good to see this thread is actually not too toxic besides the few trademark trolls. Empathy is a rare thing these days, definitely appreciate anyone you know that shows it.

[Gwenorai]

That’s definitely an interesting point. It’s pretty much a pipe-dream at this point to ask for sweeping changes to this established game already. The lack of consistency would be pretty off-putting yeah, so unless they did wanna go fully 100% in to adding extra voice overs to keep the immersion it is pretty unlikely. However I personally would be pretty happy with even just the text options, many non-binary people who ever get the rare acknowledgment of their preferred pronouns still feel super grateful for it, so that’s an argument to be had.

The rare acknowledgement would indeed be nice, but sadly, I can only see this happening where people around the person use their correct pronoun in addressing them. The game itself will not adjust to this, but the people can. We're much likely to see this in future games; more specifically in RPG single player rather than MMO.

[Cled-cat]

Can we keep the gender confusion in the RL please?

It annoys the crap out of me that the human race even dignifies this nonsensical first world problem with so much attention (the human species only has 2 biological genders, end of story. Deal with it, none of us got to choose), I really don't need it to creep into fantasy worlds as well (though it's only a matter of time, as the indoctrination will continue until absolute conformity is enforced).

Watch out, your tin-foil hat is slipping off there.