Lack of End Game Content

[LadyKairi]

snip

But we aren’t asking to please those that are blowing through the content. This is in regards to the average raider. The people who blow through the content (like world firsts or try hards) with never be happy unless the game was flooded with raids. We don’t want a bunch more raids, enough with that nonsense. Most raiders don’t do that.

[Vercinotrix]

The casual playerbase in a nutshell, who literally has more content than they know what to do with, is rallying against raiders having any more content. Then they claim they have nothing against us. Lol! You then claim raiders are the ones looking down on you? You are the ones who benefit in this game, and you still try to keep us in our hole of sparse content.

Why is it every single time I get quoted in this thread it's the same accusation?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself, especially since literally the post before this I say yet again every community of FFXIV deserves more content and the devs need more of a budget and manpower to make it happen.

It's getting to the point where "Go play something else" is actually becoming the easier thing to say. Do I need to litter my posts with "IMO, in my opinion, personally" like I have to do on reddit so people don't get offended?

This thread literally spawned out of a twitch streamer/youtuber saying he isn't satisfied with the amount of end-game content (when he meant specficially raid content) and then asks his viewers if they are. People saying they're satisfied with the content and suggesting you can do something else between content drops isn't a personal attack, yet it seems most of the "hardcore" crowd that's showing up to this thread is getting offended by other people being satisfied and happy.

Yeah, sure, some people don't want more savage content because they won't do it for a myriad of reasons. Some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them. On the flipside when others have come up with a way to entertain themselves and suggest it for you "hardcore" players to do you snap back with "THAT'S NOT ENDGAME CONTENT". People on both sides are twisting into something it hasn't been since it started on twitch. Even the guy who spawned it all twisted it immediately into something it's not because what end-game content is completely subjective from person to person as we can see throughout the entire thread.

Now that people have been yelling and arguing for 50+ pages we've gotten to the point that people are just turning spiteful on one another.

[Zabuza]

Why is it every single time I get quoted in this thread it's the same accusation?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself, especially since literally the post before this I say yet again every community of FFXIV deserves more content and the devs need more of a budget and manpower to make it happen.

It's getting to the point where "Go play something else" is actually becoming the easier thing to say. Do I need to litter my posts with "IMO, in my opinion, personally" like I have to do on reddit so people don't get offended?

This thread literally spawned out of a twitch streamer/youtuber saying he isn't satisfied with the amount of end-game content (when he meant specficially raid content) and then asks his viewers if they are. People saying they're satisfied with the content and suggesting you can do something else between content drops isn't a personal attack, yet it seems most of the "hardcore" crowd that's showing up to this thread is getting offended by other people being satisfied and happy.

Yeah, sure, some people don't want more savage content because they won't do it for a myriad of reasons. Some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them. On the flipside when others have come up with a way to entertain themselves and suggest it for you "hardcore" players to do you snap back with "THAT'S NOT ENDGAME CONTENT". People on both sides are twisting into something it hasn't been since it started on twitch. Even the guy who spawned it all twisted it immediately into something it's not because what end-game content is completely subjective from person to person as we can see throughout the entire thread.

Now that people have been yelling and arguing for 50+ pages we've gotten to the point that people are just turning spiteful on one another.

I am glad the casuals are satisfied and happy. Why can't casuals want the raid crowd to be happy? You yourself just said 'some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them.' If they don't enjoy them, then they don't have to do them? That means they also have no reason to interfere with people who do want there to be more raid bosses. If I am cool with casuals being happy, why can't they support raiders being happy? You don't see me telling SE not to create glamour and mini-game stuff just because I don't enjoy it. I could care less. I just won't do it because I don't want to. Just like they don't have to touch raids if they don't want to.

It's nice that you have suggested alternate ways for us to try to have fun with what exists, but we have stated that challenging content is what we enjoy. Glamour, housing, achievements, collectables, this stuff is not challenging nor fun for me. I guess that's what really gets me, because not wanting content created just because it's not something you would do, even when you already have your own stuff to do, is pretty selfish to me, and does it make it seem like some people want to spite raiders(I'm speaking in general not targeting this at you directly.)

[Vercinotrix]

I am glad the casuals are satisfied and happy. Why can't casuals want the raid crowd to be happy? You yourself just said 'some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them.' If they don't enjoy them, then they don't have to do them? That means they also have no reason to interfere with people who do want there to be more raid bosses. If I am cool with casuals being happy, why can't they support raiders being happy?

Honestly? I can't answer that. I have my assumptions. Spite and revenge from a bad experience doing it? Are they just in a bad mood, jimmies rustled? I really can't say for certainty. What I can say, is who honestly cares what they think? People aren't gonna support things they view as taking away from them first and foremost, secondly expecting a player-base that wouldn't enjoy the content be supportive of those who do is near asinine. We live in a selfish world, no sense acting like we don't. Appealing to other players won't get you more of the content you love, at least not immediately. Hell look at the support male viera and female hrothgar get, and that's still a "No until it won't take away time to develop other content".

Hope one of the youtubers or streamers who raid for their primary game-play ask for more of it, it seems that's all companies care about anymore is epic "content creators" or twitch streamers and bend over backward to accommodate them. They even get interviews. (albeit mostly softball or fluff questions lmao)

On the flipside, saying casuals as a whole (or implying it) don't want you to have content you enjoy is disingenuous. Sure there are gonna be some people that don't, but again them saying they're satisfied and suggesting alternatives to you isn't the same as "dont add more raid bosses or more savage raids". And yeah, the salt mined from this thread will make it more prevalent. Extremes cause extremes, or so is my belief. You're never going to come up with an idea that has nothing but support for it. Even something as simple as "hey leave tank stance on the player when they level sync" was met with "lmao no".

[Jojokomoko]

I am glad the casuals are satisfied and happy. Why can't casuals want the raid crowd to be happy? You yourself just said 'some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them.' If they don't enjoy them, then they don't have to do them? That means they also have no reason to interfere with people who do want there to be more raid bosses. If I am cool with casuals being happy, why can't they support raiders being happy? You don't see me telling SE not to create glamour and mini-game stuff just because I don't enjoy it. I could care less. I just won't do it because I don't want to. Just like they don't have to touch raids if they don't want to.

It's nice that you have suggested alternate ways for us to try to have fun with what exists, but we have stated that challenging content is what we enjoy. Glamour, housing, achievements, collectables, this stuff is not challenging nor fun for me. I guess that's what really gets me, because not wanting content created just because it's not something you would do, even when you already have your own stuff to do, is pretty selfish to me, and does it make it seem like some people want to spite raiders(I'm speaking in general not targeting this at you directly.)

I agree with you, most of the people on my friend list who have been asking for more challenging content has simply left and never return even when ShB launch. It's like a graveyard at this point.

It is obvious that the discussion on this is finished, each side of the player base simply disagrees with one another. We should just go on our separate ways.

[Hyrist]

I'm going to be as blunt as possible.

If you're playing the game solely for endgame content - your choice is valid - and your own. But in my opinion, you are doing it wrong.

However, if you insist on playing sorely for endgame, please know that this game, is designed intentionally not to monopolize your time. You can complete what you need in most run situations with skill and the spending of a couple hours a day.

This needs to be stressed, because we are six years into the Reboot and people still do not understand this fact:

This. Is. By. Design.

Yoshida has come out, on multiple occasions, stating that he does not like having a game that monopolizes the entirety of one's gaming hobby, and that it's healthy to diversify. If it is your intent to have endgame be your sole focus in gaming - I advise picking up another (either a second, or a separate) MMORPG, or find something else to do in your free time once your weekly content jump is complete. There's nothing wrong with that. (It's actually healthier for your life in most cases.)

In spite of the Yoshida's philosophy, there is plenty enough in the game to have this become someone's sole hobby when you expand beyond the ilvl grind. However, those who are here from World of Warcraft or some other heavy endgame MMOs will find themselves in culture shock. This is simply not that kind of MMO.

Please understand this. Concessions have been made for hardcore endgamers in the form of Savage Mode and Ultimate battles (I suggest tackling the latter if you have not already). To go further than this point creates more content that will be denied enjoyment from the majority of the playerbase - and may pull development time off of other matters.

In my opinion, development time should be now focused on refining further the approach, so that job balance is more on part during release - rather than just immediately throw a large amount of endgame content at a job system that just went through a large shakeup. This timed release schedule was a boon in that factor if nothing else.

I'm fine with having 'the lack of endgame content' be a standing critique of the game. Because it grows each patch, there is lots and lots of other content to do in this game - and it promotes healthy play. It's served FFXIV well these past six years and I hope it continues to develop along this vein.

[MonteCristo]

Whats the point in hitting 80 then?

[RareItems]

Whats the point in hitting 80 then?

Amaro Mount lol.

[Ibkee]

Snip.

The heart of the matter is, you're bored of the formula.

The people complaining here likely did the same during Stormblood. Precious little has changed to the point where we can accurately predict almost the entirety of the content release schedule right up until 6.0. That is FFXIV.

It's hard to find legitimate arguments other than throwing the toys out of the pram with "you have stuff to do, why can't we have more stuff to do?" or looking down on "casuals" for enjoying the game as it is. The very nature of this debate is trying to change not just what the game is, but what it aspires to be.

We've all been there. I want more this, I'd love more that. Every game ultimately is flawed in some way. Instead of trying to paper over the cracks, FFXIV plays to it's strengths then encourages the player to seek other experiences elsewhere. It's not, contrary to popular belief, a one stop MMORPG shop, and that's fine.

We all want more, but at some point you have to just let Final Fantasy be Final Fantasy. It's not going to change direction. There'll be Savage in a week and by mid-October there'll be a 24 man and Ultimate. Fast forward two years and it'll be a similar story. Yoshi P actively calls on players to take breaks between patches, do other stuff, play other games. It's not by fault, it's by design. That's the formula that holds the game together and, for me, it's predictability is it's strength and has carried it from one success to another.

[Derceto]

We all know Final Fantasy has a formula for each expansion. The question is, is it enough to keep max level players sated.

There's a reason queues die off after 3-4 weeks. The answer, is no.