Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

[HyoMinPark]

Agreed, I don't think any sensible BRD player thought that the passive crit buff wasn't more then a little OP and needed addressing.

It was more than just the passive crit scaling higher on parties as crit increased—BRD’s personal damage also shot up as we could stack more of the stat. That was something that needed to be addressed—between it starting out fairly weak in Deltascape (due to poorer crit scaling) and ending up super strong in Alphascape. Plus, stacking it with a DRG+SCH was a fairly sizeable amount of damage gain for the raid. I’ve come around to the 40% Repertoire—I think it’s quite nice (though I really dislike the 20% hard cap on lower level content—makes me not want to roll BRD under level 70 for more reasons than it still feels awkward to pair Barrage with Straight Shot instead of EA). However, I would love to see more party utility given back to us. Not necessarily damage buffs, but other utility.

I’ve seen suggestions of bringing back Foe’s and making it a sort of charge-based system. I think that could be interesting if the developers implemented it into a fun, non-clunky way. Casting Foe’s never bothered me, but I can understand the complaints of the cast being clunky. I’d like to see it as an oGCD skill. Apex Arrow is definitely in need of something—sound change included in this. It just feels really underwhelming. I think it should be oGCD just because its execution feels slow: the build up can take upwards of 60 seconds, and when it procs you have to wait for your GCD instead of weaving it. But I also just like the idea of weaving skills. It makes a job feel more active to me. (I have similar complaints with DNC’s Saber Dance—I’d sacrifice a bit of potency to make it oGCD for a smoother feel during TF windows.)


With AST, I think they could have honestly left the cards as is, with only changing Spire (because no more TP) and Balance (since it was the major issue). I don’t think the overhaul they did was necessary, and I don’t think the job is better for it. I leveled it to 80 and hated every second of it, and AST was a job I played far more than BRD (my main for 3+ years). I know it’s better in single-target encounters, and I know its still viable (we aren’t 3.0 AST, at least); but it just feels bad to play. Which makes me really sad at the end of the day. Especially since I finally got my UwU weapon for it literally 4 hours before the servers went down for 5.0. ;w;

[LunarEmerald]

SAM - Apparently plays well but has mediocre numbers. People are generally happy but would like slightly better damage.

MNK - Good numbers but plays strange. People aren't very happy.

NIN - Average numbers but good raid contribution like always. Apparently complicated. I think people are generally pleased with it.

DRG - Very good numbers (possibly too good), flows well, good raid contribution. People are very happy with it.

BRD - Apparently plays well but a good chunk of people are displeased with most of the removal of their support kit. Mixed feelings here. Some are happy, some are not.

MCH - Plays well. Very straightforward from what I've heard. Good numbers. People are happy.

RDM - Plays well. Has a few mana issues though. Other than that people aren't complaining much about it. Hasn't changed much since SB. People are generally happy with it.

BLM - Extremely good numbers. Lots of QoL changes. Better mobility, downtimes aren't a problem anymore with this class. People are very happy with it.

DNC - No idea. All I've heard is that the class is easy and relatively fun. I'd say most are content with it.

SMN -https://media.giphy.com/media/WtCcLH...ggxH/giphy.gif

Not really sure where people get the idea that SAM has mediocre numbers. They're the second highest dps after black mage. There's a gap between every dps and samurai then another gap between samurai and black mage.

What SAMS are unhappy about is that black mage beats them at all. They want to be equal with it.

[Rika007]

It was more than just the passive crit scaling higher on parties as crit increased—BRD’s personal damage also shot up as we could stack more of the stat. That was something that needed to be addressed—between it starting out fairly weak in Deltascape (due to poorer crit scaling) and ending up super strong in Alphascape. Plus, stacking it with a DRG+SCH was a fairly sizeable amount of damage gain for the raid. I’ve come around to the 40% Repertoire—I think it’s quite nice (though I really dislike the 20% hard cap on lower level content—makes me not want to roll BRD under level 70 for more reasons than it still feels awkward to pair Barrage with Straight Shot instead of EA). However, I would love to see more party utility given back to us. Not necessarily damage buffs, but other utility.

Yeah I'm coming around to it as well. Doubt I will do any synced content on it and I really really miss the fun rotation we got to late in 4.X of having to actually make decisions on 2 stack pitch perfect procs for more damage. Brought a really high skill ceiling to the job. But the knowledge that I won't feel like crap early in the expansion or be reliant on party composition to truly bring my best (besides you know, what every other job was already subject too) is one heck of a trade off that I can accept.

I’ve seen suggestions of bringing back Foe’s and making it a sort of charge-based system. I think that could be interesting if the developers implemented it into a fun, non-clunky way. Casting Foe’s never bothered me, but I can understand the complaints of the cast being clunky. I’d like to see it as an oGCD skill. Apex Arrow is definitely in need of something—sound change included in this. It just feels really underwhelming. I think it should be oGCD just because its execution feels slow: the build up can take upwards of 60 seconds, and when it procs you have to wait for your GCD instead of weaving it. But I also just like the idea of weaving skills. It makes a job feel more active to me. (I have similar complaints with DNC’s Saber Dance—I’d sacrifice a bit of potency to make it oGCD for a smoother feel during TF windows.)

Apex Arrow is in this weird state where I both love it and hate it. When it goes off the way you imagine, it feels godly. But to get to that point is very much an exercise in frustration. I wonder if us one day getting the long wanted Bard equivalent to Summoners "Bane" would make Apex Arrow feel much better, because then you wont be taking time off your AOE rotation to DOT enemies. I also personally would take a trade off of a bit hard set lower potency (400 or something I don't know) and allow me to use it instead at 25 and have it not deplete the song gauge. Let me set myself up for bigger burst sections and give me more control over that Song gauge.

[Rika007]

With AST, I think they could have honestly left the cards as is, with only changing Spire (because no more TP) and Balance (since it was the major issue). I don’t think the overhaul they did was necessary, and I don’t think the job is better for it. I leveled it to 80 and hated every second of it, and AST was a job I played far more than BRD (my main for 3+ years). I know it’s better in single-target encounters, and I know its still viable (we aren’t 3.0 AST, at least); but it just feels bad to play. Which makes me really sad at the end of the day. Especially since I finally got my UwU weapon for it literally 4 hours before the servers went down for 5.0. ;w;

You sound like me with Summoner. While Bard was my main for my static and clearing all MSQ content or any content first on due to viewing it as my character's 'cannon' role, I did everything else on Summoner. I fell in love with it's tempo rotation and honestly reminded me of Bow Wizard of 3.0 where you had to be much more measured and calculated, something I felt fit on SMN much better then on BRD. I even joined a new static after my team cleared Sigma to help them clear during our down time and did the whole tier on SMN. I was so excited for the Pheonix and more of that gameplay I fell in love with but sadly new summoner is not for me. I'm sure some players might love it, but this massive oGCD spamfest the job is now makes me feel like I'm busier then when I'm on Bard, for less of a payoff, and honestly even if they buffed it's damage, I still wouldn't come back, as I didn't go to SMN to play a high CPM job.

[Leifei]

Yup, Samurai definitely needs a buff. As a job without utility it should be on par with Black Mage in damage.

[Taranok]

I will just quote an excellent summoner who usually leads up the rotations that we use as summoners and say that I agree: "Summoner is a buggy mess of a garbage job in 5.0 that takes a ridiculous amount of tedium to master. If that doesn’t sound like your idea of a good time, I recommend you wait a little bit to learn how to play Summoner." It's not in a great place and you can absolutely tell that by doing any kind of difficult content. The timing on the class and the flow is off. And the harder the content is, the harder you will work to sustain mediocre damage.

I have to call bs on that many people saying yes summoner is in a great place. I understand a handful of people are happy with it. However, not that many.

As far as I can tell, the biggest problem I've seen are from summoners who are so good at the job that they basically don't understand what it's like to play the job in any way other than perfectly.

[Taranok]

Yup, Samurai definitely needs a buff. As a job without utility it should be on par with Black Mage in damage.

It depends. Samurai shouldn't be top because playing BLM perfectly requires a lot more thought and effort, and any level of movement can and does screw with BLM's damage more than SAM's damage. But it should be a relatively minor difference with an overall hierarchy of BLM > SAM > MCH, because MCH literally only stops DPS if the player starts screwing up or the boss flat out jumps. Whereas SAM only has to disengage when the boss forces you to disengage, and BLM has to stop damage basically for any unplanned movement (or if they get bombarded with movement and there's no way to realistically plan around it).

With perfect play, the classes should more or less fall into this category.

[ForteNightshade]

Not really sure where people get the idea that SAM has mediocre numbers. They're the second highest dps after black mage. There's a gap between every dps and samurai then another gap between samurai and black mage.

What SAMS are unhappy about is that black mage beats them at all. They want to be equal with it.

They have mediocre numbers relative to their competition. Samurai should be noticeably ahead of Monk and Dragoon yet once you factor in their utility (Brotherhood and Litany), Samurai just... isn't. They pull 400 above Dragoon at the 95% level and only 100 above Monk at every level. Considering the aforementioned utility likely bringing approximately 600+, they're just not dealing enough damage. Black Mage, meanwhile, is 1.5k above Summoner and Red Mage—which may actually be too wide a gap given Devotion and Embolden don't come close to closing that gap.

[dinnertime]

Right now I think most people are satisfied with the jobs? I think what gets the most hate right now is MNK and SMN for playing weird, then BRD for losing most of what makes it BRD, then SAM (by a margin), NIN and then SMN again for being undertuned. SMN is probably got it the worst right now because it's clunky to play while dealing mediocre damage and mediocre support at the same time. It's not good at anything compared to the other DPS.

[Hatstand]

Right now I think most people are satisfied with the jobs? I think what gets the most hate right now is MNK and SMN for playing weird, then BRD for losing most of what makes it BRD, then SAM (by a margin), NIN and then SMN again for being undertuned. SMN is probably got it the worst right now because it's clunky to play while dealing mediocre damage and mediocre support at the same time. It's not good at anything compared to the other DPS.

Most dps, perhaps. As should be the focus here. But to say most people would be an over-generalisation. Then again I guess most people play dps.