Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[Chrono_Rising]

Excellent point Xiaoki, I would have pointed out the same for the OP. Unless the block on Sheltron somehow gets to 25% it will never be as good as TBN. Using the same example as Xiaoki, you'd have to take 125,000 dmg in 6 seconds for Sheltron to mitigate as much as TBN with 100,000 hp. The problem? Is that even if you did mitigate that much then you'd be dead anyway since it would deal your full hp worth of dmg. I don't even think that there is a way to deal that much dmg in that short of a window without killing us. Bar none, TBN is the most powerful single target mitigation that any tank has access to for the duration that is available. The problem with it just boils down to either giving it 2 more sec to more reliably pop it or grant us more MP generation to recover from it not popping.

As noted in the original post sheltron becomes stronger as we gain more block strength. I think we are up to 20% at 450. So its just a matter of time till we get to 25% and higher, as patch after patch paladin will gain more and more mitigation. Regarding your math: If I have 100k HP and use TBN I will mitigate 25k damage with not variation, this makes it strong for anything hitting below your HP when compared to 25% mitigation; this breaks down when you start mitigating hits above your HP. If I take 120k damage TBN mitigates 25K I survive with 5k hp; if I use sheltron at the hypothetical 25% I mitigate 30k Damage and survive with 10k hp. If you play with the numbers you'll find that any attack over your HP will have more mitigated by sheltron at 25% than TBN.

Lets combine, at the same 100k HP lets say I need two cooldowns to live through a 150K attack. TBN + Shadow wall will mitigate 70k together, meaning we will survive with 20k.

Sheltron+Sentinel will mitigate 47.5% of the damage mitigating 71.25k together, more than Shadow Wall TBN combo.

Lets up the damge 20k and take a 170k buster: TBN shadow wall mitigate a total of 51k+25k=76k. We survive with 4k hp left over.

Sheltron+Sentinel at 25% mitigates 80.75k. We survive with 10.75k.

This says nothing of mitigation for directly before and after the buster, which can chip away at the TBN preemptively, and leaves you with less mitigation and less hp after the fact which is a dangerous combo since you still have nearly 50% mitigation running on paladin in this example for follow up damage and a more than double hp pools. At the end of the last expac we were at 30% block, I can only imagine this is where we are headed now but time will tell there.

Yes, TBN has advantages. Yes, TBN also has weaknesses. As for gunbreaker: Camo is an always available fourth mitigation, it is only 10% but combined with heart of stone is a nearly 25% mitigation (1.5% short). I did not do the math but you can prove that fixed mitigation will always have a tipping point where % based mitigation will surpass what the fixed mitigation will mitigate. The question as you mentioned is will you live taking that damage, often the answer is no, and for below 20% mitigation in a single hit situation you are correct, the tipping point is above what we can survive without adding more mitigation. However, 20% is also the end of this limit, at more than 20% mitigation you get into a zone where you can both live and mitigate more, and the higher the percentage the lower this goes. At 30% sheltron will mitigate more than TBN as long as we take damage which is above 83% of our HP.

Regarding the OP's comment on how squishy Drk is vs trash. Drk and Pld have access to the same tools for dealing with trash except for 2 things; Sheltron vs TBN and Clemency vs Abyssal Drain/Soul Eater heals.

First, I am not saying dark is squishy to trash, I said it feels squishier than other tanks.

Dark Knight feels slightly more squishy than other tanks in trash pulls.

I'm all for having honest conversation, but if we are just going to misrepresent what people are saying then I doubt there is much to be gained.

Second you omitted Hallowed Ground, which is amazing when going into pulls and not having much mitigation. Its not up every pull, but does give a nice little breather and is usually ready again after each boss.

Soul eater is a 5k hp every three GCD's, I'm not sure who is single targetting in wall trash pulls, but I feel like aoe would burn things down faster thereby mitigating more damage than using soul eater as a self heal when it restores less damage than we are being hit for by a single enemy.

And then we have sheltron versus TBN versus a spammable clemency to buy time if you are in an emergency which can be further boosted by requiscat. Living is more important than damage.

TBN is far better defensive tool than HoS, that's why it costs resources.

If you have 100,000 health then TBN would absorb 25,000 damage.

HoS on the other hand only reduces damage taken by 15%. So, for HoS to mitigate the same 25,000 damage you have to take 166,700 total damage which you definitely wouldn't live through.

Making TBN similar to HoS would be a massive nerf to it's mitigation and a massive nerf to it's cooldown and somehow you think it would be better just because it no longer costs MP?

While I agree in a single hit situation TBN > Sheltron in the context of trash pulls having mitigation for a full 7 second duration has given healers more leeway in keeping up than mitigating 25k. If I'm wall pulling 10 things hitting me for 5k each I'm taking 50k every 3 seconds TBN breaks instantly and I need more mitigation otherwise I'm taking the hits raw. HoS doesn't have a damage cap where it breaks, I continue to mitigate through the full 7 seconds while the healer does damage control.