Lack of End Game Content

[MonteCristo]

Defending XIV's quantity of end game content is trolling, full stop. I do love this game, but no one should be defending XIV's end game formula. It is just entirely lacking.

Also the following:
-> Just because you have "more than enough to do" does not mean there is enough end game content.
-> Leveling, crafting, maps, old Ultimates, mount grinding etc, is not end game content. You do not get to redefine what terms mean to suit your argument.

The 4 savage bosses per six months really hurts the long term chances of keeping players around. Every other content that is put in the game (ex trials and 24-player raids) is smashed the first day by PUGs. If the 24-player raids were actually 8-player raids—and so we'd get 4 savage bosses + ex trial every three months—is something that would change the entire situation. But as it is, it's really hard to stick around. My subscription lapses in about five days, and while Shadowbringers is one of the best MMO expansions I've ever played, I'm likely to let it lapse because I know I have, maybe, a week or two of engaging content after savage drops before I'm bored until sometime next year. This really isn't acceptable.

This essentially has been the case for years now...i have been playing off and on since 1.0 and the end game formula has barely changed over the years because people are generally more satisfied with the carebear/filler content. To each their own, but if we are truly talking end game content, the game has been sorely lacking in the department for a very long time now. Dynamis, sea, sky etc......those were great examples. Pitchforks incoming lol..

[Stanelis]

I definitely feel like this game never really has enough content, especially if progression raiding doesn't interest you. That's why I unsub for roughly half of every expansion. Never really had that issue with WoW. If I unsubbed from WoW, it's because I was bored of WoW, not because I ran out of things I could do. It would be nice if there were more things to do, but I'm not going to hold my breath. They seem pretty content with their formula. All of the random nonsense that got added in ARR seems to have been a fluke.

The real problem with FFXIV is the lack of true raids, like it used to be in EQ1 or WoW. Eg areas with a large number of encounters you need to handle with a decent amount of players. Here in FFXIV what people call raids aren't really raids.

[DarkEiraStar]

The formula works for the vast majority of players. If you're only interested in raiding then unsub until more raids come out, but raiding is not the only end game content.

[Deusteele]

These post get old after a while. Same non-issues that have brought up fro the last 6 years.

Mythic+ is a blight that damages the entirety of WoW. It's a black hole of system that should be expunged as the failure to promote positive gameplay that is it. Titanforging is a pointless Skinner Box designed to promote MAUs. AP grind Rental Gear based on P2W systems and contains all their faults.

[RokkuEkkusu]

Defending XIV's quantity of end game content is trolling, full stop. I do love this game, but no one should be defending XIV's end game formula. It is just entirely lacking.

Also the following:
-> Just because you have "more than enough to do" does not mean there is enough end game content.
-> Leveling, crafting, maps, old Ultimates, mount grinding etc, is not end game content. You do not get to redefine what terms mean to suit your argument.

The 4 savage bosses per six months really hurts the long term chances of keeping players around. Every other content that is put in the game (ex trials and 24-player raids) is smashed the first day by PUGs. If the 24-player raids were actually 8-player raids—and so we'd get 4 savage bosses + ex trial every three months—is something that would change the entire situation. But as it is, it's really hard to stick around. My subscription lapses in about five days, and while Shadowbringers is one of the best MMO expansions I've ever played, I'm likely to let it lapse because I know I have, maybe, a week or two of engaging content after savage drops before I'm bored until sometime next year. This really isn't acceptable.

So Eli, do you do EX primals and/or Savage? There is something for everyone, but are you willing to surpass your limits for some nice rewards, or will you just be satisfied with the status quo?

As far my case, I stick around because I want to do challenging content, get some neat rewards (mounts, bragging rights, etc.), and meet new people. Someday, I might be good enough to do Savage more often.

[ElciaDeiLinus]

What?

The WoW endgame is the most depressing, un-rewarding, un-fun, RNG-filled grindfest in MMOs. You can play for weeks and get nothing or login for half an hour and luck a Titanforged mythic from a World Boss. It's a complete joke.

I believe she's referring to how well WoW keeps people on the treadmill- which is does do better than other games, largely because your chance of getting upgrades is not only random but very, very low percent random. You can play every day, all day, for a patch and still not even have a single BiS item for that tier, much less an entire set.

Content wise though, if we were to remove gear and just have the game stand on merit of the content they give us... WoW's downright abysmal and has always been so. 90% of what WoW pushes out is rewrapped older content with different flavour text. There's no story, no impact, and no character development in game- even what little there is for the few actual heroes with backstory (Sylvanas, Anduin, etc...) is not in game, you interact almost nothing with them and most of what you see is a few cutscenes you're not a part of.

Dungeons perhaps have one or two interesting boss mechanics, but largely WoW dungeons are wading through pointless trash, and the big 'challenge' is to not pull extra packs. Like everything else, WoW hits you with quantity, not quality. Ease aside, I like that 'trash' packs in FFXIV are encounters, even as early as the first 24 man; the fight with the dragons, or with the cloned versions of earlier bosses feel like an encounter on their own. That to me is significant, that I can recall trash fights in this game, while I'm going through BfA's next raid and each hall is just more swarms of naga and utterly forgettable. The last significant trash pack I can recall in WoW, as annoying as they were, were the anubisah before Twin Emps, but that's a decade and a half ago.

Now, not saying they shouldn't have more in FFXIV- but I honestly don't think the lazy, thoughtless endgame of WoW should be emulated for anyone who wants to have fun, because nothing about WoW endgame involves a dev trying to make a fun encounter outside of the raid bosses (which, btw, pugs will clear week one and farm, not for joy, but for gear). The endgame of WoW is made solely to keep you playing the longest at the lowest development cost possible- and repetitive, uncreative, copy paste content is how they do it- I mean, the dev team in WoW is so lazy, they even copy pasted BfA's story from MoP.

Great game for investors, low costs and more MAUs is great if you intend to invest in Actiblizzard.

But I personally am growing more interested in this game because of the quality so far (I am only at the start of Stormblood), and I'd rather have three months of enjoyable, quality content a year than be subbed the full year doing WQs for 0.01% droprates in WoW.

[Felien]

I very relative get out of content, even in WoW for me happens the same thing. Run the same thing for a little bit of change to think that is content show why the game is in a bad state. Ppl think that is new content and you think that they are working.

But when you get in the real end game of ffxiv, you will find content for a lot of time. Glamour is the real end game and takes forever: doing old relics, run dng 30+ times to get a specific drop. To use for 5 weeks and find a better one and do all over again.

[Johaandr]

I mean - the thread title does say end game content :P

The game offers a LOT of non end game content, like what you mentioned, but this is a discussion specifically for max level content.

But thank you for giving examples. Other opinions are always valued.

Glamour is the end game

[Derio]

Pretty much because the expansion doesnt really get endgame content until the x.1 patch which introduces the new extreme trial, 24 man raid, the exploratory zone, additional crafting recipes, etc.

[SenorPatty]

Yeesh, the reading comprehension in this thread...stopped reading the replies after page 7.

In any case, usually mmorpgs offer a 1:1 for their players. You can only pick one class for one character, can typically only progress for rewards to that class and chr. If you want to play another class, you have to make a chr from scratch and start your reward/content progression from start as well for that chr. That's why devs offer a lot at endgame for those type of games.

Ff14 does the reverse because everything can be progressed on a single chr. Thus it becomes very apparent that the devs have cashed in their chips on that concept to "pad out" endgame activities. After all, you could make the technicality of, say for example, completing all chocobo goals is endgame if you managed to cap all your jobs. It's a thin technicality but this is what SE is essentially counting on when they execute their formula.

So yes, in conclusion, I do agree with the OP that endgame content is lacking in regards to lvl 80 in itself and only that. However, personally that does not bother me all that much. Ironically, because the formula has proven itself to be consistent, I don't have to worry about whether or not SE will add endgane content for lvl 80. I just simply have to wait, either by working on non-endgame specific activities or even taking a break and come back just in time for it.