[Spoilers] Eden Feedback Thread

[Renato]

I have mixed feelings about the raids just being new versions of primals we've fought before. I kind of like the "remix" designs and mechanics, but I also feel a little like I'd have rather seen all new bosses.

This was my biggest complaint tbh. And I hate to sound ungrateful because overall, the fights were fun. Eden Prime and the second fight were cool but I literally groaned when they began mentioning primals from the past. I get it in context of the story but I was REALLY hoping to see completely new bosses or throwback enemies from FF8 which this is obviously drawn from. I know we'll end up fighting Garuda and Ifrit in the next patch but I'm hoping that is the last of that and new bosses are introduced.

In the end, I was still happy with the quality and challenge of the fights. Everyone kept saying Titan V2 is the worst but Leviathan has A LOT going on. Large AoE attacks, target markers, stage attacks, puddles, quick charge-up attacks that break the stage, attacks that can knock you off the stage, a tank buster that does 100k...even after you get the mechanics down, it's still pretty difficult because you eyes are constantly jumping around to make sure you're not getting clipped by something you missed. Good thing I don't do savage...because the final two raids are going to be a pain in the ass to complete.

Story-wise...it's a bit underwhelming coming off the high that was Shadowbringers. And yes, I know it's a sidequest technically but I'm still waiting on a raid with a story similar to TBCoB. I'm hoping it picks up a bit in the later patches. I feel like after everything is restored, the Empty is going to because 5.0's version of Eureka.

The music is freaking great!! I spazzed so hard when first got to the Empty and heard "Blue Fields" from FF8. The remixed version of "Force Your Way," Leviathan and Titan's themes were actually pretty awesome as well.

The new loot system is HUGELY appreciated. The fact that all types of gear drops from any of the 4 raids is a welcome addition.

[Noitems]

snip.

So I was originally miffed on this idea, BUT there's three big things I loved about this.

1) We know Nomura did every boss design for Eden so this is a way for Nomura to show his own interpretations of the Primals from ARR. From a story perspective this makes so much sense since our variations (Nomura's redesigns) are going to look much different, even if we laugh at how we thought Titan had a go-kart.

2) This is a chance for Soken to remix some of his older songs from ARR past the Primals live versions. Those were some of his first songs as lead sound producer for ARR so it's really cool to see what his variations on not only the classic FFVIII songs but also his original pieces. Add on the fact we'll probably be having our FFVIII remixes as well so it'll appeal to those fans but also pay tribute to XIV fans as well.

3) Most importantly to me, this is a chance for the new raid design team to put their spin on these ARR fights. Titan was a prime example of what the new team feels works for our current playerbase and it's just nuts. Taking the exploding rocks and putting them in new enviornments is just an good example of taking an ARR staple and changing it up.

[Renato]

So I was originally miffed on this idea, BUT there's three big things I loved about this.

1) We know Nomura did every boss design for Eden so this is a way for Nomura to show his own interpretations of the Primals from ARR. From a story perspective this makes so much sense since our variations (Nomura's redesigns) are going to look much different, even if we laugh at how we thought Titan had a go-kart.

That's cool and all. I see the appeal of how people could be excited about this because the designs are (for titan at least) are drastically different as well as most of the mechanics but this will literally make this the 4th time we've fought Titan. (Titan normal, Titan Hard, Titan EX and now Titan ShB.) And the 3rd Leviathan fight including Levi's Hard and Ex modes. This expansion for me is great because there was so much stuff that was new in the 1st...why go back to things from the past 3 expansions?

3) Most importantly to me, this is a chance for the new raid design team to put their spin on these ARR fights. Titan was a prime example of what the new team feels works for our current playerbase and it's just nuts. Taking the exploding rocks and putting them in new enviornments is just an good example of taking an ARR staple and changing it up.

I remember Yoshi saying this in an interview...that there was a new team or something like that. Once again, that's great and all. They did a really good job but why not just give them something new to work with rather then go back to old content in a completely new expansion?

It's an endless cycle. Omg this is too easy, omg this is too hard pls nerf, omg this is too easy. I wasn't there to witness the Alexander progression, but I've heard the stories. It's what happened when they tried to make it hard.

I felt like the fights were perfect. Challenging but not too difficult once you get the mechanics down. Same as every fight tbh. What makes the fights difficult, for me at least, are the ones with crazy amounts of memorization to the point where it just isn't fun for me. Which is why I don't do savage content. I don't want to watch a 20 minute long video guide and be expected to remember everything from it. lol. Fights like these and even Shinryu normal before it was nerfed were extremely fun to me.

[whiskeybravo]

I felt like the fights were perfect. Challenging but not too difficult once you get the mechanics down. Same as every fight tbh. What makes the fights difficult, for me at least, are the ones with crazy amounts of memorization to the point where it just isn't fun for me. Which is why I don't do savage content. I don't want to watch a 20 minute long video guide and be expected to remember everything from it. lol. Fights like these and even Shinryu normal before it was nerfed were extremely fun to me.

You don't perfect a fight by watching videos..

And it's convenient of you to mention Shinryu, a lv70 story trial that's more challenging than all 4 of these new fights combined.

I don't think they need to be savage level difficult, but these are braindead plain and simple. Leveling dungeons have more mechanics. They are not even close to Stormblood normal modes, you know, the ones where people actually died to things.

[Renato]

You don't perfect a fight by watching videos..

And it's convenient of you to mention Shinryu, a lv70 story trial that's more challenging than all 4 of these new fights combined.

I don't think they need to be savage level difficult, but these are braindead plain and simple. Leveling dungeons have more mechanics. They are not even close to Stormblood normal modes, you know, the ones where people actually died to things.

I agree with the watching videos thing but this playerbase, especially a large majority of savage raiders, are adamant that players at least know the fight before doing it and will leave the group after failure. I can count on one hand how many groups I've been in that actually stuck around with new players to learn a fight for a few runs before calling it quits and trying another day. Even when you spend hours waiting for players to join you in PF after stating that it's a learning party, they still leave if they fail. Repeatedly doing something is the best way to master it...in my experience with this game in the last 4 years of playing, it doesn't work so well.

But I disagree with everything else. Most of the leveling content had a few mechanics that you really needed to worry about while the fights here will kill you if you make a mistake. There was a lot of movement, a lot of attacks to watch out for. The first two fights not so much but the last two were pretty interactive. Going in new with a PUG, we died numerous times during the Leviathan fight and that Quake attack down the middle. It's a quick cast so if you're not expecting it, you will die. I think we died 3 times on Titan.

Like I said, the fights aren't hard but they're challenging enough for the first 4 raids of the new expansion for people who don't normally do savage content. I'm sure the next ones will up the ante a bit.

[Noitems]

That's cool and all. I see the appeal of how people could be excited about this because the designs are (for titan at least) are drastically different as well as most of the mechanics but this will literally make this the 4th time we've fought Titan. (Titan normal, Titan Hard, Titan EX and now Titan ShB.) And the 3rd Leviathan fight including Levi's Hard and Ex modes. This expansion for me is great because there was so much stuff that was new in the 1st...why go back to things from the past 3 expansions?


I remember Yoshi saying this in an interview...that there was a new team or something like that. Once again, that's great and all. They did a really good job but why not just give them something new to work with rather then go back to old content in a completely new expansion?

My guess for both of these is that ARR currently is almost 6 years old (August 27th 2013), so from now I can consider XIV paying tribute to itself more a given. But the fact Nomura is doing these makes me consider that these primals are designed to be for the First, as if they came from it as opposed to the source. From what Eden has been about it seems like we're actually doing a reverse of what happened to the Burn. Using the primals energies through to revitalize the land with aether as opposed to constantly summoning and draining the aether from the source. The parallels are pretty interesting since many people were speculating what the Burn would look like now with flow from Azim heading back to it. So why not make it more personal with our actions directly affecting The Empty's nourishment through gameplay?

The primals themselves are FF staples , instead of coping out with the same designs they took a totally different angle giving Nomura the original design and I'm assuming the team designing the raid off his work. We know for a fact Nomura designed Gaia without knowing that XIV didn't have a hammer wielding job so it's safe to say with how busy he was that this would probably be the right train of thought.

[Gula]

instead of coping out with the same designs they took a totally different angle

Titan already existed by another name though. They were re-using XIII's assets hard this expac from mobs to MCH mecha being a modified trash mob from a junk yard.



Side note. Tinypic is shutting down. RIP fast uploads.

[Nixxe]

I don't want to watch a 20 minute long video guide and be expected to remember everything from it. lol. Fights like these and even Shinryu normal before it was nerfed were extremely fun to me.

That's not how video guides work. You watch a video to start building your understanding of the encounter. It highlights some key mechanics, shows you what they look like, and tells you roughly when they happen. You then couple that with experience to get the fight down. This way the first time you die to something you go, "Oh, that's x mechanic," and next time you don't die to it instead of scratching your head and wondering how you're supposed to survive that mechanic. It will likely prevent some deaths entirely. The video just accelerates mastering the fight.