Alot of hate on new job iterations o.O

[Poppet]

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

[Xieldras]

If we do not post in the Official Forums, how do we communicate appropriately with the Devs? How do we voice our discontentment about the changes to jobs, who quite a few have mained for years only to have its gameplay or identity altered for newcomers, and tell Devs this is the wrong path to take? The only reason I see people complain instead of giving suggestions is because it feels like we (players/community) aren't being listened to when it comes to making those changes. Can you look at MNK, AST and SCH threads and tell me the Devs had a good idea what the community wanted for these jobs, despite many actually giving out suggestions before? People will not take the time to put out well-written suggestions if they're simply going to be ignored anyway. That is wasted time and effort.

Players love the game (if they hated it, they wouldn't spend 20$ every month at minimum). They want this game to be the best experience it can be. I've seen those on this forum willing to engage with the Devs in discussion about what changes would be good, but get nothing but white noise in return unless it's during FanFests or interviews. I'm not saying they should be on forums 100%, but please at least leave us some acknowledgement that you're reading what we put out.

I do not see hate in those threads, I simply see anger. If there's such anger at changes inside a video game, it's that people were invested and attached.

[MrSmiley]

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

It's a bit early to call balance we don't even have a savage yet. Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

[Poppet]

It's a bit early to call balance we don't even have a savage yet. Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

It's more clunky and flawed gameplay than numbers. Even SB MCH was meta viable. Just not fun to play. However, bad numbers do contribute to all 4.

Without providing feedback that won't change. And they'll stay like SB MCH did for a whole expansion without it. Hopefully not with it too.

OK i dont know about the other jobs but Stormblood Mnk was definitely not the best it ever was, in fact it was, till that expansion, the worst iteration of MNK by far the "best" MNK was in HW, since then the job is¿ mediocre at best, the middle ground in all the worse ways, being a mediocre DPS and a Mediocre support, all that compounded by FC being hidden behind RNG and party composition (which is still a problem), Tackle mastery was a joke and the riddle system was incredibly useless (until 4.2 with RoW), the slow down of RoF always felt off, although it had its uses besides being an incredible buff. Overall MNK in SB was mediocre at best in ShB is still mediocre with even less to do.
Also TK is fucking useless. Tk rotation was annoying but at least it made use of TK. Do i want it back? no. Is it better than what we have now ? Saddly yes.

MNK at start of SB was bad and you're right. After it got PB and RoW changes it became the best it had ever been. Every single part of MNK's kit had meaning. The previously useless Tornado Kick was suddenly a huge boost to your damage and not a dps loss button. Building GL was no longer a problem area at any point of a fight.

I know a lot of people didn't like RoF, but its purpose is for you weave all your ogcds under it. By doing so you won't clip and lose damage. Having too much SkS wasn't nearly a problem anymore. Despite is being undesirable by a lot of MNKs it made the job better. Now it serves no purpose and it's clearly worse now.

Having dps loss buttons in MNK's current kit and server tick Anatman fishing isn't exactly what I'd consider a success story. When it didn't have any of that nonsense just three weeks ago. It's still suffering it's biggest SB problem. Being more punishing than SAM for less damage.

[Shurrikhan]

Also stormblood suffered a VERY polarizing meta group vs other groups that held a massive dps and kill time difference based on class selection alone.

Not... by the end of SB. Not remotely. At worst, SAM just remained a bit undertuned relative to BLM and MNK and RDM needed their raid buffs opened up (at very faint pDPS cost).

[reyre]

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

OK i dont know about the other jobs but Stormblood Mnk was definitely not the best it ever was, in fact it was, till that expansion, the worst iteration of MNK by far the "best" MNK was in HW, since then the job is¿ mediocre at best, the middle ground in all the worse ways, being a mediocre DPS and a Mediocre support, all that compounded by FC being hidden behind RNG and party composition (which is still a problem), Tackle mastery was a joke and the riddle system was incredibly useless (until 4.2 with RoW), the slow down of RoF always felt off, although it had its uses besides being an incredible buff. Overall MNK in SB was mediocre at best in ShB is still mediocre with even less to do.
Also TK is fucking useless. Tk rotation was annoying but at least it made use of TK. Do i want it back? no. Is it better than what we have now ? Saddly yes.

[RadicalPesto]

Even with Stormblood being so-so story wise it was still balanced amazingly well. The story and everything was done so well this expansion but job balance was a second thought.

EGI person, MNK, AST and BRD got absolutely butchered despite them being the best they ever were in Stormblood. It's kind of insulting what they did to them. The hate for their reworks is pretty justified.

BRD absolutely did not get "butchered", the quality of the core gameplay is still there, the problem is that 3 minute battle voice is a terrible stand-in for the lore identity of singing to support your allies.

[Xieldras]

BRD absolutely did not get "butchered", the quality of the core gameplay is still there, the problem is that 3 minute battle voice is a terrible stand-in for the lore identity of singing to support your allies.

While BRD's gameplay is still relatively the same, the direction changed. Utility was heavily removed with no stand-in and getting new abilities to focus solely on DPS, which is against BRD's lore and original class concept (Red job support hybrid), means that BRD's identity was lost for ShB. To me this is effectively "butchered".

[Kabooa]

While BRD's gameplay is still relatively the same, the direction changed. Utility was heavily removed with no stand-in and getting new abilities to focus solely on DPS, which is against BRD's lore and original class concept (Red job support hybrid), means that BRD's identity was lost for ShB. To me this is effectively "butchered".

It has more utility than Dancer. It just doesn't have -damage- boosts.

[Rika007]

It has more utility than Dancer. It just doesn't have -damage- boosts.

Absolutely incorrect from a pure simple amount of utility abilities to the actual impact of said abilities overall.

BRD Utility:

Battle Voice- 3 min
Nature's Minne- 90 seconds
Trobadour- 3 min
Warden's Paen- 45 seconds

DNC Utility:

Standard Finish- Always on
Technical Finish- 2 min
Devilment- 2 min
Curing Waltz- 1 min
Shield Samba- 3 min

In terms of Personal and Raid DPS boosting, Standard Finish alone will provide more dps boost to the team over it's duration then Battle voice. Technical Finish and Devilment make it a laugher. Curing Waltz will provide much more healing potential in all but the most high level situations in raid when you sync up with your healers, which means the vast majority of players will never get anything out of it, especially since they doubled the cooldown and curing waltz being available more often. Shield Samba and Trobadour are the same ability entirely under different names. All bard has over Dancer in the utility department is Warden's Paen, an ability that hasn't seen any high level usage since silence was Removed from WAR's berserk rotation. Heck if they were going to prune any support ability from Bard, that should have been it.