If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[Aver]

As most don't know, DPS is expensive mana wise now and rezzes are 25% of your entire mana supply. There are times when all I can do is heal and then idle to recharge mana. I don't mind tossing out a few DPS spells or a dot but with the current healer setup, its near impossible to ABC. Healers don't have the bottomless well of mana they used to have.

As to the WHM DPS potency, yea they need a nerf, a big one too.

No they don't. When things die faster, you take less damage and I don't have to spam heals to keep you alive.
Please, continue pulling wall to wall and let me do my job. We'll agree to disagree, the run will go quickly and we can all go to collect our tomes.

[Saix027]

And people say this community is nice but then i see those DPS fanatics beeign toxic even after this heavy changes.

Get real people, seriously.

It is not about Idling or AFKing around, its about mana managment now, i so often now run out of mana becasue i want to help and do DPS and then i end up not able to heal anymore, WHM have less problems with it defintly but SCH and AST hit this Update worse then ever.

Get your mind our your close minded view of the world, some are fine with things like DPS while heal still if tehy can, some are not, if you look for fast runs don't go into pugs and go with friends, but for that i guess you need freinds in the first place, which i doubt with such elitism mindset.

People like this let a community die and you are the ones responsible if games like this die out, i am not behind all those changes they made but for god sake you want to enforce DPS setup? Go play something else, this is FFXIV not some Free to Play with hardcore mechanics and DPS checks that fails for only 10 less damage, its a story driven game and always was, move away and do us all a favor you DPS junkies.

AGAIN, AFKing or saving up Mana is a difference and atm we are all forced to save up mana, even mage have trouble atm to keep DPS up with that. Open your eyes and see the real world for once maybe.

[Kelani]

Besides, when we're in a party we can clearly see when people are trying their best to heal or are struggling with healing and when people are just there, waiting for someone to take damage. Very different things.

I've seen people like this, usually in low level dungeons. While some of them are clearly high level (some have even been mentors) most of the time I've found them to be sprouts and new to the game, so I've just assumed that they're learning their role and gaining confidence in healing, so I've never said anything about it.

On the other hand, I've never really said anything when it's been a mentor and they're in like a level 16 dungeon and are not helping to dps. Admittedly, it is few and far between that I've come across players like this. The reason I don't say anything is simple, usually people don't listen, or they'll listen and then have a go at you for telling them how to play the game, so I normally just let it be.

Actually, the other day I was doing Garuda EX and one of the tanks was going crazy saying that healing was the problem and they should focus on healing. I was like, I am healing. Then I realised that the other healer was mainly dpsing and leaving me to do all the healing lol. That's actually the first time that I've ever had someone say to stop dpsing and heal When I think on it, I've never had anyone ask me to dps as a healer either, maybe that's because they see that I'm always doing something, or they can see that at times I'm struggling to relearn with the changes, idk!

[Granyala]

Uhm, a good Whm can compete with an above average dps regarding AoE damage in Dungeons. And last I checked my damage in Titania Ex was higher than of the tanks so.... idk, Whm is a lot of fun to play atm.

Sure, if your group plays well and you can rely on people not making stupid mistakes you can dish out damage.
Not that it's an entertaining venture to press 2 buttons (I do wish DPSing was more involved than putting up one DoT and mashing the glare button), but hey, to each their own.

Most groups will force you to heal too many fails to be able to doe out competitive DPS.

[Melorie]

People like this let a community die and you are the ones responsible if games like this die out, i am not behind all those changes they made but for god sake you want to enforce DPS setup? Go play something else, this is FFXIV not some Free to Play with hardcore mechanics and DPS checks that fails for only 10 less damage, its a story driven game and always was, move away and do us all a favor you DPS junkies.

Stop being bloody dramatic. People talking about Healer DPS won't make the game die. Gezz. People like you contribute nothing to the discussion.

This is a MMO, a game you play with other players and it shouldn't be surprising that some of them will expect competence and bring the best your job can do to the table. If you're not comfortable with this and just want to do the history, that's why trusts are here.

sbip

Yeah, when it is a sprout I usually find it very normal too. If the person is new and is on my FC and we're talking about healers then I will mention that you can DPS, but besides that, I don't usually call out sprouts... I mean, I also don't call out people in most duties, even those who I believe could be doing better. Unless their actions are really making the party suffer.
I've also had trouble with this before. There are healers that only dps and do not even cast a Medica II/Aspected Helios/Succor which also sucks!
But to be fair, DF in this game is so quiet most of the time that I've never heard "heal more" nor "dps more". Nor anyone that I know.
Usually I don't say anything, and if I do, I do it in the most gentle way possible because I can't know who's behind the screen and what's happening with that person.

In the forums, however, a place meant for feedback in which we're discussing classes, it is different. I think that here is a place in which we should try to elaborate our point and let it be very clear. In-game, I usually only discuss this with those that are also interested in the topic.

[NinjaTaru72]

Hey, I believe that most of the people that claim in favor of healing DPS and say that people that refuse to DPS are lazy are not including people with some sort of disability, or new people that are learning, people that are adjusting, etc, since most of healers have been through that stage of learning and adjusting. Not DPSing because you don't feel like you can and are busy enough is one thing, not DPSing because you simply don't want to even if you have room for it is another.

It's just that, if you play this game and say that you are a pure healer or healers shouldn't DPS... Well, there's something wrong, you're probably choosing to stay idle. Because it's very clear that, for the majority of the playerbase that play this for a long time and doesn't have any sort of disability, the fights of this game, for good or bad, have a lot of room for DPS. You'll probably notice that even the fights that you struggle now, the more you comfortable you are, the less you heal.

Besides, when we're in a party we can clearly see when people are trying their best to heal or are struggling with healing and when people are just there, waiting for someone to take damage. Very different things.



Please go level your healers and actually get experience in this role before throwing stupid suggestions. Thanks. It is very clear, even from new content, that healers must DPS if they want to do SOMETHING besides overhealing.

Uhh, scuse you? I Mained sch from the start of the game till stormblood and through parts of stormblood, doilng dungeons raids and more. I'm pretty sure I have experience. Lol. And its not about overhealing. It's about the fact that you should not, for any reason, be trying to *force* a healer to dps. It should be up to them. They don't *need* to do anything but try their best to keep their team alive

[Cylla]

The damage such a senseless idea would do to the game. You are no less extreme in your rhetoric than the very people you admonish for being toxic.

And yet, she's right. IF, and that a big if, we know it won't happen, but if it did, we'd see probably an increase of healers in DF because we wouldn't have to put up with the toxic behavior of other players throwing their "ideal" on to a healer.
We get it already. Some healers love to dps (to the point they tunnel vision the tank health... wipe incoming!), some focus on healing before dps, while some don't do any dps at all.
And I'm not saying that I support those who do stand around doing nothing, but I don't support this utter bs of bulling in DF dungeons.

No less, people fail to realize that this is all new content, new job changes, etc. We're getting used to these changes. WHM to me felt about the same, but AST with a tank that don't know how to use their abilities right, yeah, no, I've been more focused on keeping the tank alive then being able to DPS. AST mana still blows. We don't have the utilizes like WHM does to keep our mana at a comfortable spot.

This kind of topic shouldn't even be raising up at this moment, but it seems it is because the OP being bully into doing DPS when she's doing her job and focusing on heals before DPS. This is how it should be, yet some people believe it to be the other way around.

And let be honest, it dungeons. If DPS themselves can't pull their weight in a dungeon and NEED the healer to dps, I hope they aren't going to be applying for a raid group anytime soon.

[HyoMinPark]

Same here, hardly see anything aside "Hello/GG TY". Though, I should probably notice here that OP is from NA data center while you (and me) are from EU. And... ahem-akhem, let's be frankly here: European community is quite calm in general though we have our toxic personalities, too ofc. Maybe that's due to big language diversity so people just shy to write in chat in bad English, but it is what it is.

Reporting from Aether — I haven’t seen any instances of griefing over this. Most people say “hello” at the start, and “thank you” at the end, and that’s about it.

You are wrong here, because main game developer himself said they design encounters specifically in mind of healer to not do any DPS at all, and they do not expect healers to dps.

Yoshida has also recently said that he does not think healers should not NOT contribute to damage. At the end of the day, however, it doesn’t matter what Yoshida says. The community dictates the playstyle. However, if we want to go by the developers dictating the playstyle, well, healer NPCs DPS. And the Healer Hall of Novice states that healers should toss out offensive magic when they aren’t having to heal.

At this rate Id laugh if they potentially "lock" dps actions for healers when entering any dungeons. It would certainly put a stop to players trying to force healers to dps

You’d also see a lot less people playing healers. If I want to be AFK for 80% of something, well, I might as well not even do it at that point. Being locked out of actively contributing outside of a cast every half a minute isn’t my idea of fun. I prefer to always be casting instead of waiting for people to take damage.

[Melorie]

UAnd its not about overhealing. It's about the fact that you should not, for any reason, be trying to *force* a healer to dps. It should be up to them. They don't *need* to do anything but try their best to keep their team alive

Yet no one said you should prioritize DPS, just that it's very clear that there is room for DPS while healing and if you play as a healer you know that.

You think that people should stand waiting for others to get hit because you can't force someone to DPS? Yeah, no. I won't do that with my teammates. If you want to keep doing nothing - because it is a FACT that this is what you'll end up doing in a lot of content, even new content, fine. But it's not surprising that people would find this stance of you very lazy. If you want to help the party you'll do your best, and in FFXIV, do your best as a healer is not using interesting buffs, shields, debuffs on your downtime because we don't have it - it is DPSing, like it or not.

And yet, she's right. IF, and that a big if, we know it won't happen, but if it did, we'd see probably an increase of healers in DF because we wouldn't have to put up with the toxic behavior of other players throwing their "ideal" on to a healer.

I doubt it. After all, you would be stand by without doing nothing for minutes in at least any content that's not recent. Who wants to play a class like that?
If you're busy healing, it is quite clear. If you don't have MP, people can also see that. There will be always rude and arrogant people on DF, that doesn't justify supporting stupid ideas such as "lock dps buttons" unless you want to watch netflix while playing.

[Drez]

I think those obsessed with healers dps’ing are losing a bit of perspective. I can’t hrlp but feel the ones complaining about healers not doing it are hardcore savage raiders. If you’re in a savage or some ex content, then yeah healers should be doing everything they can because that damage output can make a difference. But the reality is a healer dps’ing will have zero impact on weather or not a group wins in 90% of the games content. All it does is make you win a minute or two faster.

When you go into a DR with random players you accept that you’ll get players of all skill levels and mentalities. Your only expectation should be being able to beat the content within the time limit. Anything beyond that and you should be forming your own party before hand.