Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[Ronduwil]

Because without enrages, every single encounter becomes a war of attrition. Just keep throwing bodies at the boss until it dies. You only ever need a healer and/or Caster (sans BLM) alive to keep going. This absolves any responsibility from damage dealers. In fact, you could literally just bring all four tanks, all three healers and a RDM to practically guarantee you'll see every mechanic within the first 30 minutes. Why bring a DRG when a WAR can survive half the mechanics bosses do? I'm sorry but if you can't focus on a fight for 5-10 minutes because of other obligations, then don't queue into the content to begin with. Normal modes and 24 mans are a mess because there is zero incentive for players to improve outside self motivation. As stated above, so long as someone's alive to raise people, it doesn't matter how many times you die.

You can have mechanics to prevent this that aren't simply arbitrary enrage timers. For example, every time a player dies, the boss gains a damage buff. Or the boss periodically launches an attack that has to be soaked raid-wide. As players die, the others will naturally have to step it up.

If anything, I want enrages for the easier content so people are held somewhat accountable. They aren't about speed killing, but telling you to stop making mistakes and "git gud."

Why? Why do you want to hold someone "accountable" for not devoting as much time to the game as you do? Worse, why do you want to punish yourself because your friends aren't as dedicated to a video game as you are? I don't understand this mentality. I like getting good at the game for its own sake. I like the opportunity to exhibit my competence by carrying my friends through content. I think that's much more fun than trying my best and still failing because my buddy just wasn't good enough.

[Eli85]

Why? Why do you want to hold someone "accountable" for not devoting as much time to the game as you do? Worse, why do you want to punish yourself because your friends aren't as dedicated to a video game as you are? I don't understand this mentality. I like getting good at the game for its own sake. I like the opportunity to exhibit my competence by carrying my friends through content. I think that's much more fun than trying my best and still failing because my buddy just wasn't good enough.

Doing respectable DPS for anything short of Ultimate raids really does not require significant time devotion. At all. The people who can't do respectable DPS are either afk or only using one spell or only auto attacking or something equally as troll worthy. It would be really nice to weed out these players early, which improves the game for everyone.

[Melichoir]

Doing respectable DPS for anything short of Ultimate raids really does not require significant time devotion. At all. The people who can't do respectable DPS are either afk or only using one spell or only auto attacking or something equally as troll worthy. It would be really nice to weed out these players early, which improves the game for everyone.

I pretty much agree with this. Ive seen people in 390 gear averages pulling subpar dps. This is an issue where people are literally coasting through content. When you can have a Sam in 360 gear do more dps than a BLM in 390 gear where the BLM has better uptime on the boss, thats an issue. Yes, enrages should happen at lower levels to force even average players to put in the effort. No one is gonna realistically argue that you need to have perfect rotations and pulling 7k+ DPS on expert roulette, but you should see people doing moderate amounts of dps in the 4.5-5.5k range. That kind of damage isnt hard to get. It just takes people to have a basic understanding of their skills and doing decent rotations. Thats it.

It doesnt require elite haxx0rz skills to take 10 minutes and read your skills and think "Hmm, Ill probably do more DPS if I keep my buffs on, hit my positionals, and not overcap on resources."

[Crystal_Raven]

I pretty much agree with this. Ive seen people in 390 gear averages pulling subpar dps. This is an issue where people are literally coasting through content. When you can have a Sam in 360 gear do more dps than a BLM in 390 gear where the BLM has better uptime on the boss, thats an issue. Yes, enrages should happen at lower levels to force even average players to put in the effort. No one is gonna realistically argue that you need to have perfect rotations and pulling 7k+ DPS on expert roulette, but you should see people doing moderate amounts of dps in the 4.5-5.5k range. That kind of damage isnt hard to get. It just takes people to have a basic understanding of their skills and doing decent rotations. Thats it.

It doesnt require elite haxx0rz skills to take 10 minutes and read your skills and think "Hmm, Ill probably do more DPS if I keep my buffs on, hit my positionals, and not overcap on resources."

Unsure if you are aware but in FF14 expecting people to have a basic understanding of their class and skills along with an alright rotation is elitism.

[Eli85]

Unsure if you are aware but in FF14 expecting people to have a basic understanding of their class and skills along with an alright rotation is elitism.

Pay less attention to hyperbolic talking heads and exaggerated buzzwords. No one but the most ridiculous would endorse your statement, and it's more likely than not that they're trolling. 'Cause Internet.

[Crystal_Raven]

Pay less attention to hyperbolic talking heads and exaggerated buzzwords. No one but the most ridiculous would endorse your statement, and it's more likely than not that they're trolling. 'Cause Internet.

You say that and yet I still encounter max level players that have no idea how to play their class or position properly or do half-competent rotations. On a daily basis.

[Eli85]

You say that and yet I still encounter max level players that have no idea how to play their class or position properly or do half-competent rotations.

My claim and yours do not conflict each other. You see that because the game allows players to play terribly and still progress, until end game. If a previous suggestion like strict enrage timers were implemented earlier in the game, this issue would be reduced to the point where it likely wouldn't exist anymore. Further, even in those situations, only the uneducated would claim a repulsion to that as "elitist," and why would we heed what such individuals have to say?

[Ronduwil]

Doing respectable DPS for anything short of Ultimate raids really does not require significant time devotion. At all. The people who can't do respectable DPS are either afk or only using one spell or only auto attacking or something equally as troll worthy. It would be really nice to weed out these players early, which improves the game for everyone.

I'm in no position to speak to how raiding is in this game, but in my WoW experience, rotation isn't the issue for beating the raid timer. The issue is maintaining your rotation while also dealing with boss mechanics. Also, respectable DPS isn't enough to take down WoW bosses on the Heroic/Mythic level. Everyone's execution has to be flawless. That means everyone pops their cool downs at key times, no one falls prey to an instant-kill mechanic, and everyone's latency is spot on. As for weeding out players improving the game for everyone, I completely disagree. Weeding out players is a good way to kill your game. This is why this game's sub numbers are on the rise while WoW's are still in decline. They were extremely successful at weeding out their reasonable players. Now all that's left are ultra casual collectors and hardcore raiders with no game to speak of in between those two extremes.

To be clear, I'm not saying that hard content and challenges shouldn't exist for the hardcore. I'm just saying that they shouldn't come at the expense of widely accessible content. The title of the thread is flawed because WoW isn't really easy. The problem is that there's super-casual content and extremely hardcore content with nothing in between. The super hard content is still there for those that want it. The problem isn't that the super easy content exists. Super easy content always existed. The difference now is that there are no incentives to do the mid-level group content because you can't get anything out of it that you couldn't get faster out of the super easy solo content. While I agree that the WoW model should be emulated, I don't agree that WoW is "too easy." It just doesn't offer compelling mid-level group content. As long as this game continues to provide that, I think it'll be fine.

[whiskeybravo]

Why? Why do you want to hold someone "accountable" for not devoting as much time to the game as you do? Worse, why do you want to punish yourself because your friends aren't as dedicated to a video game as you are? I don't understand this mentality. I like getting good at the game for its own sake. I like the opportunity to exhibit my competence by carrying my friends through content. I think that's much more fun than trying my best and still failing because my buddy just wasn't good enough.

Because it's an online, co-operative game, not a single player in which you can stop and smell every rose. You don't need to spend anymore time looking up a guide than you spend wasting it because you don't know what you are doing. And furthermore, in what reality is not holding someone accountable beneficial to progress?

Accountability doesn't mean punishment. It means accepting your responsibility, along with your limitations, and working to improve. Anything less is lack of respect for those around you.