Tanks and spam windows

[Jeeqbit]

I agree that putting it on all of the tanks might be bad for their diversity, but then I can't think of many alternatives to add intrigue to the rotation.

Spam windows have proven a huge success on the other two tanks, so thinking of it from a developer standpoint, it makes sense to continue with it on DRK so that it's not just "Souleater spam".

The expansion isn't released yet and we already have dozens of threads nitpicking and criticising every little thing, when I am minded to just simply enjoy it. If I am capable of enjoying it on PLD then I probably will on DRK.

[shao32]

I agree that putting it on all of the tanks might be bad for their diversity, but then I can't think of many alternatives to add intrigue to the rotation.

Spam windows have proven a huge success on the other two tanks, so thinking of it from a developer standpoint, it makes sense to continue with it on DRK so that it's not just "Souleater spam".

The expansion isn't released yet and we already have dozens of threads nitpicking and criticising every little thing, when I am minded to just simply enjoy it. If I am capable of enjoying it on PLD then I probably will on DRK.

I'm glad you find fun spamming the same skill in a row and all that stuff, I didn't not and DRK has never being a burst job.
So let's assume that DRK desperately need a burst window, why not design a unique burst window that fit his current gameplay? Why rip everything and plant a copy of inner release? You know it's not only the implementation of a burst window and such, it's the way they did it too, you don't screw all the ppl that enjoy the job over 4 years with a specific gameplay and now dealt a 180° bcs why not.

[Jandor]

you don't screw all the ppl that enjoy the job over 4 years with a specific gameplay and now dealt a 180° bcs why not.

Dark Knight has basically been changed for the benefit of people who hate Dark Knight.

Fantastic.

[Maneesha]

Thats a really big assumptions you made here.
Not all will fail with basic task thats for sure, but making the gap bigger between skill floor and ceiling will for sure make balancing everything much harder if not impossible.
You know how it will be frustrating for anyone who is not playing a tank, to go into the duty and see giant difference between players, once you are doing something in 15 minutes and another times it takes 50 minutes. It is already bad enough, and what if a tank jobs have complexity level of a samurai and still have to use def CDs and support abilities?

IMO the skill ceiling and floor is already pretty low and gets lower with every expansion, because the dev team thinks they need to make things easier for potential new players and are trying to make tanks/healers more appealing to more players, but forget about the already existing players playing those jobs. Why cant jobs get more complex with every expansion instead of getting easier and easier?Because newer players will have a higher learning curve and that is something bad? I disagree, its actually the opposite,learning a difficult/complex class has a certain sense of achievement and accomplishment,but right now you can level a job to max and learn how to play it and the rotations in less then 5h and you get bored of it much faster. Sure you can create bosses to be difficult, but the jobs you play shouldn't be exempt of the process of creating complexity and difficulty. During HW paladin was the "easy" to learn and the least complex of the 3 tanks, there are people who like easier/less complex classes,they can gravitate towards paladin, warrior and dark knight were the more complex ones,so it took you more time to learn them and optimize them, so people who like a bit more challenge/complexity can gravitate towards those two tanks. Also i think in general you overestimate the complexity of the tank game play.

As for difference in player performance in duty finder, this is nothing new and no matter how much you make jobs easier, you will always find differences in the performance for various reasons. If you want consistency then naturally people should play with people they know, be it friends list or guild mates. If you go to play with people you don't know, don't expect consistent 15min runs or whatever you are used to...

I dislike the constant spam windows which we have since SB and i dislike that the devs also adapt/copy this game-play to even more jobs with ShB. In HW warrior did try to squeze 3 fell cleaves in a berserk window,but i never liked the SB upgrade to 5/6 fell cleaves in inner release windows. It gets boring really fast. I think this is also a byproduct of the "trick attack" windows, since every player tries to line up his burst to fit the "trick attack" and maybe the devs find it easier to push/balance the tank dps by giving them easier(and boring) burst mechanics, instead of more complex ones, i think everyone can agree that pressing 4-6 times the same key is easier then a different combination of keys.On the other hand they made Gunbreaker have a more complex set of skill and a lot more diverse rotation then the other 3 tanks....

[Reynhart]

Spam windows have proven a huge success on the other two tanks, so thinking of it from a developer standpoint, it makes sense to continue with it on DRK so that it's not just "Souleater spam".

We wouldn't have a Souleater spam if they didn't strip us of our other combos one by one. The other job I mainly play right now is Red Mage, and its burst phase does not revolve around spamming the same attack over and over.

What they could have done with DRK is to give them a "Blood" Combo, instead of two unrelated GCD. Imagine if we have three 50-Blood skills that are useful on their own, but would actually be more powerful if you chain the three of them. Suddently, Delirium negating the cost would open a "full" combo instead of simply spamming BS.

Practical example :

Quietus would have its current effect. (A potency increase to 250 would be nice, considering it cost 50 Blood)
BloodSpiller would have its current effect but could combo from Quietus to do a 800 potency attack
We get back Scourge, which cost 50 Blood and apply a 900 potency DoT over 60 seconds, but it could combo with a comboed-BloodSpiller to instantly apply its full damage.

Those three skills would still be used on their own but would do a great "burst" during Delirium. And no spam

Also, you could have Living Shadow duration extended by 5s everytime you use a Blood ability, so that you would build 100 Blood before your "burst phase", summon your Shadow and do two Blood combos thanks to your remaining Blood and Delirium, while extending your Shadow duration by 30s.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I have mixed feelings towards "spam windows."

Conceptually, I take no issue with "spamming" the same skill within a given time-frame; I can enjoy it for what it is.

With regards to Inner Release, specifically, the discussion is really about the conditions necessary in order to execute Inner Release "properly" (whether such conditions should exist is another discussion, but the paradigm has been set). While there are certain things to consider with regards to buff timings and phasing, 4.2 Inner Release is relatively unconditional, and it's a far, far cry from 4.1 Inner Release.

Still, if I'm being honest, 4.1 WAR's DPS rotation was far more difficult/conditional than it had any business being. However, 4.2 Inner Release didn't really bridge the gap, so to speak.

All that said, I don't think it's a good idea to copy and paste this mechanic onto DRK, especially when Delirium will be even less conditional than 4.2 Inner Release.

[RatCopter]

Ungabunga windows should have stayed on WAR where it belongs.

[gman1311]

Ungabunga windows should have stayed on WAR where it belongs.

Now it’s on DRK and they can Unga bunga together, they’re basically bros now. Unga bunga my dudes.

[RatCopter]

Now it’s on DRK and they can Unga bunga together, they’re basically bros now. Unga bunga my dudes.

This sickens me.

[gman1311]

This sickens me.

If history must be unwritten, let it be unwritten. Become what you must, become Warrior 2.0! Unga bunga