Removing Tank Stance Argument

[whiskeybravo]

I believe that the choice between mitigation/damage/threat should be resolved through CDs and rotational choices. I feel like there's room for allowing for a higher skill ceiling balancing a Tank's options between performing an enmity combo, dps combo, and balancing a mitigation combo vs mitigation oGCDs in place of simply "Grab enmity in tank stance, do your dps rotation and press mit oGCDs in dps stance"

So.. You're saying they should bring back RoH strength down, DR on Storm's Path and low-blow/reprisal proc mechanics.. Or something like it?

I don't necessarily disagree, and I think if SE had a problem with us stacking so many buffs/debuffs to mitigate damage then they should've just increased the damage to help compensate. It's better than taking the ability away altogether. I mean, personally I always enjoyed at least feeling like I was contributing even if it was marginal damage reduction at the time, but it's something that can be used to separate tank play from the other roles if properly utilized.

[Big-Isaac]

I like the idea of getting more enmity yet less damage from hitting from the front, and more damage but less enmity from hitting from the flanks or back.
It's a lot more organic than having certain skills arbitrarily cause the target to hate you more than others. All of the melee are also already based on positionals, so it would make sense for tanks as well.

[Khalithar]

So it's confirmed in the live letter today.

Offensive stance is gone. Tank stance penalties are gone and toggling tank stance is solely for generating aggro and nothing else.

That means you can stay in tank stance the whole time if you're main tanking with no penalty and nothing to worry about. No obnoxious stance dancing, no wasted gcd's swapping stances as pld or drk (if you turn on grit), and no more stupid arbitrary damage penalty. I'm ecstatic, I wanted tank stances gone entirely, but I'll take this as it's nearly as good. I'm VERY satisfied with this as it's something I've basically wanted forever.

[shao32]

agreed i totally agreed, this it's as good as removing tank stances, removing the penaltys and set tank stances to being just enmity bumps on every skill it's a really good change, and MT/OT confirmed too in more or less the way i defend it, looks a pretty cool change i can't wait to see the full kits.

the gunbreaker looks pretty cool i will love to play with it and the DRK changes looks awesome.

[Canadane]

Seems they're just making tanks the DPS we all wanted to be in the end.

[Kalise]

Going from the Tank comments put into the master thread about the LL stuffs:

-All jobs can support MT.

Aww yeah, no more "PLD is by default the best OT!"

Though, hopefully there's no major discrepancies. Such as DRK having... TBN and like PLD having... Cover, Intervention, Clemency, Passage of Arms + like a new skill called "The Brightest Day" which spends 50 gauge to make another party member invulnerable!

-Removing offensive stances. We will just toggle tank stances on and off. Tank stances adjusted.
-Damage received/dealt, max HP from tank stances are gone.
-Tank stances will now only generate more enmity for all abilities used.
-No penalty for applying tank stance. Turn it on for MT and leave it off for OT.

Okay. It's one of the better solutions to the Stance problem.

Remove the penalty, and basically just make its use simply be based on what position you're in. Similar to how I suggested stances be done, just without the interesting gameplay shift, it's now just "Do enmity" or "Don't do enmity"

I wonder if this might just trivialize Enmity though? Or will circle-shirking still be a thing?

-New trait, Tank Mastery, for damage received/dealt and max HP. All damage received will be reduced by 20%. Max HP bonus and damage dealt increase based on certain attributes.

Hmm... More passive mitigation...

I hope that Warriors still get to have fat stacks of HP though. Like, more fat stacks of HP than other Tanks. But with less DR in return.

Also, I'm curious about that whole sentence about HP Bonus and damage dealt increase bonus? Is it suggesting more stuff like Upheaval? Is Vitality going to be indirectly a DPS stat again?

-Enmity-generating combos removed.

'aight.

Well... RIP level 1-29 Tanks.

-Skill rotations will not change for MT or OT. Will always be the same.

Meh... Would have liked to see some changes here... Just a little mix up to make things a bit more interesting than just mashing your face on the DPS rotation 24/7...

-For Paladins, no more Sword Oath. New ability to remove casting time for spells. Sheltron duration extended. Rage of Halone effects changed.

Wait... Sheltron duration increased? Wut? Like it already lasts 10s... If you're not taking a hit within 10s then wtf are you using the skill for?

Also "Rage of Halone effects changed" uhh... Wasn't one of the above points that enmity combo's are going? Or is this supposed to be some other skill?

-For Warriors, no more Defiance. You'll get a new ability that's more powerful than Fell Cleave.

Wut? No more Defiance? But didn't the above point say DPS stances are going? Are Warriors keeping Deliverance? Are Warriors losing both stances?

Also lul at Feller Cleave memes being accurate

Odd that they didn't mention anything about how Fell Cleave/Inner Beast stuff was going to work. Is IB just going away?

-For Dark Knight, no more Dark Arts, as mentioned before.

Aww yiss! Though apparently they're getting a second gauge to manage summoning Fray... So DRK's are going to be pet Tanks? Huh...

Warriors can buff allies. Tank stances have been changed. Many Fell Cleaves in a row.

Inb4 people whine that Warriors can buff allies...

Though, it sounds like we might be getting "Warcry" or something. Either way, it's a scary thought for balance if these ally buffs are rDPS ones and if Warriors are still going to be dishing out their own axe flavoured damage...

Also sounds like Inner Release is staying the way it currently is... Meh...

[Derio]

Hopefully hall of novice will explain the new enmity changes. Unless tank stance generates so much enmity that you can insta pull mobs off an enemy outside of provoke

[Bright-Flower]

I like what they're doing with the stance change. And glad to see pld getting a shield crash type gap closer. (I think? Hard to tell without seeing the animation in slow motion.)

[t-bot]

I like what they're doing with the stance change. And glad to see pld getting a shield crash type gap closer. (I think? Hard to tell without seeing the animation in slow motion.)

it is a gap closer a shield charge

[ForteNightshade]

I like the idea of getting more enmity yet less damage from hitting from the front, and more damage but less enmity from hitting from the flanks or back.
It's a lot more organic than having certain skills arbitrarily cause the target to hate you more than others. All of the melee are also already based on positionals, so it would make sense for tanks as well.

The moment you have one tank suffer a damage loss for tanking, is the moment you have tank stand offs because no one wants to pull and gimp their damage. There is no good reason to punish someone for doing their job.