Removing Tank Stance Argument

[linay]

That's why I'm connecting those dots. We won't have class/job quests which means we'll get our skills from leveling up instead (well, outside of the uber lv80 skill we'll be learning). What we will have is Role Quests, and since every quest has to have a reward, it makes some sense to obtain role actions from them.

Role quest is for level 70-80. Role action is needed from at least level 10 when you can do guildhest, but definitely by level 15 when you can do Sastasha.

[Kabooa]

That's why I'm connecting those dots. We won't have class/job quests which means we'll get our skills from leveling up instead (well, outside of the uber lv80 skill we'll be learning). What we will have is Role Quests, and since every quest has to have a reward, it makes some sense to obtain role actions from them.

Nonon.

We don't have any from 70-80. We will still have 1-70.

That's why they specifically call out the new jobs have quests from 60 to 70 (Which is odd, we all assumed that) so bringing specific attention to it was odd, until it was said no one gets more job quests until 80.

[whiskeybravo]

Rip. Guess I missed this:

"Role actions will be automatically obtained upon reaching the required level."

[Shurrikhan]

But in regards to Rampart/Reprisal.. I thought we as the community had expressed enough opinion that they should've looked into that, or designed the new/changed abilities in such a way to compensate for their adjustment. Like, will WAR have Rampart AND on-demand IB now? That was one of the major points of contention. Or maybe they changed Rampart to a 2 min CD or something.. Certainly not enough info, I just thought they would've realized simple things like DRK's wanting shadow skin animation back, or that reprisal could go back to being DRK exclusive without too much issue. It's looking like we have uber mitigation at this point.

This. I don't see why Tank needs all 7.

• Provoke? Yes.
• Shirk - Wouldn't be necessary if we just stuck a 3-second enmity lock on Provoke.
• Low Blow - Sure, but not really necessary. The HW balance across stuns would be fine if given with slight alterations.
• Rampart? - Nope. Just compensate WAR in its own kit and return Rampart and Shadowskin to their respective kits.
• Reprisal? - Ehh. I get that they don't want to make DRK too MT-dependent, but there are plenty of other ways to compensate for that that could still leave Reprisal as DRK-unique.
• Interject? - Sure, I guess, sort of? Honestly, though, you could just give Infuriate a mass Silence, DRK-only Reprisal a Silence, and return Spirit Within's Silence. Still worth holding for in raids.
• Awareness? - Just scrap it and perhaps make critical strikes blockable/parryable.
• Ultimatum? - Pretty meh. I can only see this as being necessary for co-tanking add groups where adds can collectively flurry vulnerability buffs, and even then only poor AoE potency balance would prevent tanks from swapping via tank stances alone. And we really don't need another expansion with such imbalanced tank AoE potential.
• Convalescence? - *Shrug.* I'd rather have seen it returned to GLD/PLD, while MRD/WAR got new synergies and/or lifesteal and DRK more lifesteal and/or damage-stagger.
• Anticipation? - Seriously, why was this even a thing to begin with?

[Big-Isaac]

I honestly do not understand why we need this role action system to begin with. Instead of having every tank learn the same provoke, stun, etc, why not simply give each tank their own version of those skills that fits their job's theme?

[xJimmehx]

I honestly do not understand why we need this role action system to begin with. Instead of having every tank learn the same provoke, stun, etc, why not simply give each tank their own version of those skills that fits their job's theme?

WAR gets this "suck it" hand gesture. Where both hands are swung in towards the crotch.
DRK gets to flip the bird. or a squall imitation ex: "...." /looksaway #coldshoulder #youcantundermypain
PLD gets a pamphlet for their lord and savior Halone that they get to hand out to everyone, even people who are clearly not interested or sleeping at @6:56am.

[Big-Isaac]

Seriously, though, for taunts it could be something like this:
PLD: Emits a flash of light from the user's palm, drawing the target's attention and blinding it for 3 seconds
WAR: Angers the target by shouting at and insulting it, drawing the target's attention and increasing its movement speed by 100% for 5 seconds
DRK: Uses the darkness to cloud the target's mind so it can perceive only the DRK, forcing the target to fixate the DRK for 4 seconds

For stuns?
PLD: Shield Slam: Breaks the target's stance with a powerful hit from the user's shield, interrupting any casting
WAR: Low Blow (might as well keep it)
DRK: Choke: Uses the darkness (NOT The Force. The darkness. Totally different) to crush the target's throat, interrupting the target's cast

For Shirk:
PLD: Uses the same skill as their taunt, but channels it through the target instead. The target emits blinding light, drawing the enemy's ire
WAR: The WAR feigns to have no more interest in fighting, turning his back, pointing at the target and walking off. Insulted by the dismissive attitude, the enemies set their sights on the target
DRK: Like the PLD, the DRK uses the same skill as their taunt, but shifted towards the target. The darkness shrouds the enemies' minds, making them perceive only the target, thus compelling them to attack it.

Yeah, the WAR examples are more silly than the PLD and DRK ones, but I am serious about them. Silliness in class design is not a bad thing when applied correctly.

[Shurrikhan]

PLD: Shield Slam: Breaks the target's stance with a powerful hit from the user's shield, interrupting any casting
WAR: Low Blow (might as well keep it)
DRK: Choke: Uses the darkness (NOT The Force. The darkness. Totally different) to crush the target's throat, interrupting the target's cast

While the force choke would be pretty awesome, I have to wonder why you'd avoid their originals? Low Blow was originally the DRK-only skill, and synergized with its parry abilities since its cooldown was refreshed upon parry, while Warrior had Brutal Swing.

Give Brutal Swing the ability to pierce even Guard effects, whereby one is normally immune to stuns, albeit perhaps at lower duration when doing so.
DRK then retains Low Blow and the only true cooldown-reset mechanic on a stun.
Paladin retains the only on-demand stun in the form of Shield Bash (can keep this from breaking combos if needed) that can perhaps be made oGCD after a block, though no more often than every 15 seconds (combining it with Shield Swipe, in a sense, for efficiency).

For Shirk:
PLD: Uses the same skill as their taunt, but channels it through the target instead. The target emits blinding light, drawing the enemy's ire
WAR: The WAR feigns to have no more interest in fighting, turning his back, pointing at the target and walking off. Insulted by the dismissive attitude, the enemies set their sights on the target
DRK: Like the PLD, the DRK uses the same skill as their taunt, but shifted towards the target. The darkness shrouds the enemies' minds, making them perceive only the target, thus compelling them to attack it.

These seem good too, but... is there even any need for Shirk if tanks were to already have an enmity-lock attached to their Provoke-variants? What could go wrong in a tank swap at that point without blatant griefing?

[Jandor]

Honestly not seeing the point of role actions anymore, as others have said, just give jobs their own versions.

I also don't really see the point of shirk either. Tank stance has no drawback now.

[Bright-Flower]

Honestly not seeing the point of role actions anymore, as others have said, just give jobs their own versions.

I also don't really see the point of shirk either. Tank stance has no drawback now.

Seems to be to give roles some basic tools they want all jobs in the role to have and making unique versions for each job would add to the workload.