why i quit before reaching endgame (feedback from a new player)

[Skivvy]

TarynH Is right, in FFXI to get to Endgame content you had to almost fully complete Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Prometha to get in to Sky and Sea respectively, it wasn’t 100% but it was pretty close to it, I also remember to get one of the bis rings you had to 100% finish CoP. Also I remember dynamis required completion of the base story.

Dynamis required only rank 6 in your home nation (out of 10). Sky access is granted on quest 13 out of 18. Sea is available on 7.something out of 8.something (this is one of the later access points). But then you also had content like assaults and Nyzul that unlocked at mission 3 out of 48. Also, gear is not factoring in here - of course you would have to dive deeper if you wanted to get the latest/greatest BIS items - but the point is you didn't HAVE to if you didn't want to.

As I stated before, flexibility in an MMO is never a bad thing.

Geezus people, you act as if I'm trying to say MAKE XIV EXACTLY LIKE XI. Who give a rat's bum if CoP was more difficult? Just about everything in XI was more difficult. You're missing the bloody point.

[SerLuke]

Dynamis required only rank 6 in your home nation (out of 10). Sky access is granted on quest 13 out of 18. Sea is available on 7.something out of 8.something (this is one of the later access points). Also, gear is not factoring in here - of course you would have to dive deeper if you wanted to get the latest/greatest BIS items - but the point is you didn't HAVE to if you didn't want to.

As I stated before, flexibility in an MMO is never a bad thing.

Geezus people, you act as if I'm trying to say MAKE XIV EXACTLY LIKE XI. Who give a rat's bum if CoP was more difficult? Everything in XI was more difficult. You're missing the bloody point.

Not missing the point but you are painting FFXI in a more favorable light than it actually was back in the day, don't forget to get through some of these trials you also had to manually contact and find help or shout in towns for help if you didn't have enough people in your linkshell to help, at least with FFXIV they have a duty finder system which makes it so much easier to actually get a party to clear the content. I remember getting freaking lost so many times and needing help getting the items I needed for unlocking missions/stories in FFXI not to mention needing help getting items like keys to get to Kazam just to level up cause no one wanted to exp anywhere else or help just getting the freaking artifact armor. Yes I played FFXI back in the day, this game is a freaking walk in the park in comparison. Saying FFXI did story gating better isn't true at all unless all you wanted to do is hunt HNMs and compete against botters for them, yeah no thanks, I love and enjoy what FFXIV does much more.

[Physic]

OK, let's talk about XI. I'll fetch my rose-tinted glasses.

They did, and they didn't force story in XI. It depends how you want to look at it.

XI made a point to make each expansion separate from any other expansion. So you didn't have to complete one story to go into the next. In that regard, XI's story wasn't "forced."

However, that being said, XI did force story completion. The main story had to be completed past the Shadowlord to open up Dynamis. The rest of the city stories were extra. Zilart had to be completed nearly to the end to open up Sky, its endgame content. CoP had to be completed to open up Limbus and Sea. Not to mention a certain part of it had to be completed to open up Dreamworld Dynamis. ToAU needed enough completion to reach Nyzul, more completion to do Salvage, and full completion (plus Assault rank) for Einherjar. WotG needed some slight progression to reach WoE, but had very little endgame content aside from that; making the story trivial for that expansion. Abyssea and the other 3 add-ons were all story driven, and somewhat forced progression. SoA had completion checkpoints to access Delve and Skirmish, but I feel they stopped caring about the story in this expansion. Rhapsodies even needs completion to a certain point to open up content.

XIV went a different path and made an overall connected story arc. Thus "forcing" the main story to be completed.

XI's case was actually a failure on many levels, imo. The main story probably should have been forced more, and had more incentive to help others do it. XI is extremely hard to get back into, and especially hard to get back into and finish up any story you missed.

XIV actually has incentives, and reasons to do story. So the people that actually enjoy that thing, have some help along the way. They've also done a lot to make the story, for the most part, soloable in many regards. Which is another area where it succeeds.

Regardless, forced or unforced, it doesn't negate that the story played a significant role in FFXI overall.

See... I'd disagree here. There really isn't that much to do after finishing the story, and I personally don't understand everyone's rush to skip the story or ignore it. It's a large part of the game. Eureka was probably the biggest grind (time sink) they have added to endgame in XIV, and I have a love/hate relationship with it. The rest of the content, however, is repeated raids/dungeons ad nauseam to get loots, which end up completely useless after a short time. Especially useless when the next expansion rolls out. Not to mention the only reason the gear exists, is to help you meet ilvl requirements for... more story, or... more raid.

the only reason its any harder to do do ffxi stories, is because they are not completely solo.

also, if you are going to have locks, i think ffxi way was better, because it would have a better balance of story and leveling. Part of the problem with ffxiv, is you can only abandon the story for very small parts before being locked from relevant content. Ffxi also seperated different types of main story. this way it was more adpatable to player goals, and how the player played.

there was a national mission line, a zilart mission line, promathia line, etc

its also a lot less discreet parts, and built in to each story is some portions that are adventure/battle related. (not 1-2 minute fights between 15 minutes of teleport npc tag))


Now, they could do something similar for ffxiv, but that would be much larger endeavor. They could seperate out the tutorial/city/grand company stuff, move some parts to sidequests, and add a start point at each expansion. They could also make bigger chunks of dungeons unlock at once, so players dont have do it every couple levels.


but thats a lot more expensive production wise than just giving each account a way to unlock story content, then set new game plus to chapter one, which are already built.


the goal is not to make ffxiv not have any story, the goal is to make playing the game more natural, and adapt to different player types.

[Cayalle]

(Newcomer here) I confess that really sometimes has a lot of cutscenes. But stopping to think even if you do not like to read, sometimes it's lovely to see your char always present in the scenes. Thing difficult to see in other games. I do not think cutscenes are a problem, as there are many other factors that make the game something incredible and different from the mmo's we see around.

[SerLuke]

i think ffxi way was better, because it would have a better balance of story and leveling.

Yeah, having an exp party for 3 hours and only getting like half a level was so much better =/

[SerLuke]

(Newcomer here) I confess that really sometimes has a lot of cutscenes. But stopping to think even if you do not like to read, sometimes it's lovely to see your char always present in the scenes. Thing difficult to see in other games. I do not think cutscenes are a problem, as there are many other factors that make the game something incredible and different from the mmo's we see around.

Yes! This is my favorite aspect of the game!

[Physic]

Not missing the point but you are painting FFXI in a more favorable light than it actually was back in the day, don't forget to get through some of these trials you also had to manually contact and find help or shout in towns for help if you didn't have enough people in your linkshell to help, at least with FFXIV they have a duty finder system which makes it so much easier to actually get a party to clear the content. I remember getting freaking lost so many times and needing help getting the items I needed for unlocking missions/stories in FFXI not to mention needing help getting items like keys to get to Kazam just to level up cause no one wanted to exp anywhere else or help just getting the freaking artifact armor. Yes I played FFXI back in the day, this game is a freaking walk in the park in comparison. Saying FFXI did story gating better isn't true at all unless all you wanted to do is hunt HNMs and compete against botters for them, yeah no thanks, I love and enjoy what FFXIV does much more.

the point isnt that story was easier, the point is you werent locked into 700 quests to get to content. Ffxi gave you room to breathe, and explore, and level. And the story itself was more compact and focused. That method of story adapted to the user's needs. Interested in promathia? here 20 quests, interested in zilart? 18 quests.

and doing the quests wasnt as focused on cutscenes and fetching.


I'm not saying remake ffxi, but i am saying ffxi had a story system which better handled new player content walls/locks. It was a more adaptive, horizontal system.

[Mimilu]

Eh, I can see that the cutscenes can be a bit pace breaking.
Also, what is with all these otters?

[SerLuke]

the point isnt that story was easier, the point is you werent locked into 700 quests to get to content. Ffxi gave you room to breathe, and explore, and level. And the story itself was more compact and focused. That method of story adapted to the user's needs. Interested in promathia? here 20 quests, interested in zilart? 18 quests.

and doing the quests wasnt as focused on cutscenes and fetching.


I'm not saying remake ffxi, but i am saying ffxi had a story system which better handled new player content walls/locks. It was a more adaptive, horizontal system.

It really didn't though, to progress in FFXI's story you were FORCED to not only group with other players but actually manually find the help yourself in order to get items/drops you needed to progress in the freaking story itself, I remember having to have help to get key drops to go to Kazham just to level up because no one wanted to party anywhere else in FFXI at that level, whereas in FFXIV you unlock the dungeons you need to exp at as you go through the story, much, much better system than having to rely on RNG drops just to get to an area of the game where you wanted to go.

[Physic]

Yeah, having an exp party for 3 hours and only getting like half a level was so much better =/

75 levels was the cap for years, you only had to level once. But why are we talking about leveling? point is ffxi told a lot of story, without needing 700 quests to get to any specific content you were aiming for.

and in ffxiv, that 700 quests is soon likely to be 850-900 quests in a month. They can easily change experience gain to adapt, but story is not easily made faster for newer players.