Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[reivaxe]

Im sure ppl waiting 2-3 more weeks will not kill the game and drive ppl towards other games. Most ppl tends to leave the game when they are finished with the current patch. The issue is not a: how many content is there, but more so a: How good it is. I bet ppl would not mind them not releasing more eureka or limited jobs to get other things which are useful to both players and their income such as the removal of genderlock

I'm sure SE would love to risk the loss of numbers and money based on your personal feelings on the matter. I'm sure they don't have or hire people to do the math and study the trends. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they try to slow down the speed at which you can grind gear in a game that lives on a monthly sub.

And I find it soooo strange that you think "Just cut [insert Content I don't personally like] and that would free up resources for Viera Males!". Like ... do you think the people working on BLU are stopping the creation of a new race? How much overlap do you thing there is between people who work on player characters and the people who coded and designed the systems and inner workings of Eureka well reusing mobs from other parts of the game to fill the zones?

A race is the single most taxing, expensive cosmetic thing they can add. Because now not only do you have to redo everything that's been done for ever race IN the game but also have everything that CAN be done with a player character become even harder to do. Those dances and emotes the put on the Mogstation now cost more to make. Glam now cost more to make. Job skills now take longer to animate. What about other things these character modelers, designers and animators work on? Dngs can bring about new and exciting encounters using new rigs and models so it's safe to say they need these people to. That's sure to become harder.
This is why most MMOs with good character design don't make it a habit to add more character models that players can use.

"Hire more people" even if that's a path they could go (Yoshi seems to say that's not a solution) you're asking them to forever increase the number of people they pay for and screw with their system of churning out content for no reason or pay off.

It actually sickens me that people would want all players to suffer for them to have the option to be some race/ gender combo that most people don't care about.

This line of reasoning does not spark support in people and is very disappointing to read, I question the judgement of those who run on such a platform.

[grinkdaboy]

i'm still pretty hopeful. the liveletter was more or less an explanation of the misstep they took in making 2 genderlocked races (time, resources, desire for a beastly race despite the fact that male viera could have fulfilled that role). their previous statement was "depending on feedback we'll do it (we're going to do it, it's just a matter of when" and this does not seem like a 'no' to me.

[WhiteArchmage]

I'm sure SE would love to risk the loss of numbers and money based on your personal feelings on the matter. I'm sure they don't have or hire people to do the math and study the trends. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they try to slow down the speed at which you can grind gear in a game that lives on a monthly sub.

And I find it soooo strange that you think "Just cut [insert Content I don't personally like] and that would free up resources for Viera Males!". Like ... do you think the people working on BLU are stopping the creation of a new race? How much overlap do you thing there is between people who work on player characters and the people who coded and designed the systems and inner workings of Eureka well reusing mobs from other parts of the game to fill the zones?

Let's take the BLU example: It involved people designing, creating and play-testing dozens of animations the PC is allowed to do, balancing the Masked Carnivale, designing the final boss of said Carnivale, BLU AF gear, play-testing spells... and then the hype over BLU died off literally as Yoshi was talking. Do we have statistics about how many people unlocked, got all spells, played the Carnivale, etc. after the first few weeks? Add to that a second limited job and it's all this work again, besides rebalancing BLU when it gets to 60. I mentioned myself that side-content is fine, but adding more and more side-content is part of a problem that's already getting out of hand: the fact that they feel like they need to add more which exponentially makes more work (and even then, RDM and SAM are lacking some Primal weapons because the Dev team apparently gauged the work vs. profit and went "y'know what? not needed"). And it's already hurting the patch cycle, because this content is either getting delayed (Eureka) or doesn't last long after release (Diadem, BLU, Eureka).

A race is the single most taxing, expensive cosmetic thing they can add. Because now not only do you have to redo everything that's been done for ever race IN the game but also have everything that CAN be done with a player character become even harder to do. Those dances and emotes the put on the Mogstation now cost more to make. Glam now cost more to make. Job skills now take longer to animate. What about other things these character modelers, designers and animators work on? Dngs can bring about new and exciting encounters using new rigs and models so it's safe to say they need these people to. That's sure to become harder.
This is why most MMOs with good character design don't make it a habit to add more character models that players can use.

"Hire more people" even if that's a path they could go (Yoshi seems to say that's not a solution) you're asking them to forever increase the number of people they pay for and screw with their system of churning out content for no reason or pay off.

It IS a path they could go, we've had actual people who work in the games industry question Yoshi's statement that more manpower and budget wouldn't have helped. Because it actually would. If the models got caught at the QA level, you need more people there to deal with the work-load; if you have 50 spells to translate from the idea phase to digital, you get more people that each handles a certain number; you make a new dance for the mog station, you get a team that gets the general assets and each focuses on how it works on a particular race/gender combo.

It actually sickens me that people would want all players to suffer for them to have the option to be some race/ gender combo that most people don't care about.

This line of reasoning does not spark support in people and is very disappointing to read, I question the judgement of those who run on such a platform.

The 3.5 months cycle is already hurting the devs and players, there need to be changes, for the good of the dev team and the game as a whole. Heavens, Yoshi-P himself has said the content is meant to be taken in in bite-sized chunks: play some, take a break, play other games. XIV isn't a job (for the players, it is for the devs).

P.S. Stop throwing "most" around, even the Live Letter acknowledges they don't know how well Hroths will be played but they wanted to do it.

[vaultie]

So, I plan on swapping to Viera once they become playable and the whole "no males" thing doesn't exactly affect me, but I just feel the need to throw my two cents out there. I'm switching because I enjoy the fact that Viera are portrayed as more mature, because let's face it- Female Miqo'te and Female Au'ra do look on the younger side, especially with the range of their height scale. "What about Elezen or Hyur or Roe?" You may ask? Putting it bluntly- Female Elezens, Hyurs, and Roes, while able to look mature, don't provide the same animalistic aesthetic that a Miqo or Auri would. Viera take the best of both worlds in that regard, giving a happy-medium to those that want to be on the taller/more mature side while still having popular animal features.

From what I can see, those asking for Male Viera are wanting the same exact thing (save for a certain minority). For many, I can tell they feel that Miqo'te men are too short, yet Elezen and Au'ra are too tall, while Hyurs lack the "fantasy" feel with the animal features, as stated before. Likewise, it's worth mentioning that those wanting Female Hrothgar could be unsatisfied with Femroes for the same "animal" reason. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting bunny ears or whatever other animal feature- It's a fantasy game, after all.

In my opinion, I feel that those unsubbing and getting mad at the devs are overreacting. But, on the other hand, those "celebrating" the exclusion of Male Viera need to find better hobbies and stop harassing others. More customization and more variety would be the opposite of a bad thing. However, I still think that main story + raiding content should have priority over customization, and I personally would not want the devs to do more work and crunching than they already need to.

[jake200135]

From what I can see, those asking for Male Viera are wanting the same exact thing (save for a certain minority). For many, I can tell they feel that Miqo'te men are too short, yet Elezen and Au'ra are too tall, while Hyurs lack the "fantasy" feel with the animal features, as stated before. Likewise, it's worth mentioning that those wanting Female Hrothgar could be unsatisfied with Femroes for the same "animal" reason. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting bunny ears or whatever other animal feature- It's a fantasy game, after all.

This! Pretty much this. I'm Hyur for now, but M Miqote, M AuRa, M Elezen, and literally none of the other male races fulfill what I'm looking for in a player character. Hyur Midlander is the closest I can manage to get to what I'm looking for, but even he doesn't quite get there. All I want is something just as graceful and elegant as the F Viera, while still looking mature and masculine while not coming across as really goofy looking with really bad animations. I really feel like that's not asking for much. The dev team does have talent so I know its something they're capable of doing, they just need a bigger budget and more personnel for their team.

Yoshi may have said that more money or people wouldn't fix this, but I honestly don't think that's true. More money and people is exactly what this game needs, its just the higher ups in Square Enix that's refusing to give it to them. The dev team deserves better for sure. :/

[MrKimper]

Do we have statistics about how many people unlocked, got all spells, played the Carnivale, etc.

word from Yoshida's mouth was 70% of the playerbase are in approval of BLU's implementation according to feedback gotten from the community team.

:^)

[Gwenorai]

word from Yoshida's mouth was 70% of the playerbase are in approval of BLU's implementation according to feedback gotten from the community team.

:^)

Didn't they get this statistic from '70% of active players unlocked Blu'? Not actually 'Out of the 100% of active players who have unlocked Blu; 70% of them like it.'?

One of these is not likeee the otheeeer

:Eyes: I didn't get no questionnaire asking me if I liked Blu. Rabble rabble.

[Emmanellain]

This! Pretty much this. I'm Hyur for now, but M Miqote, M AuRa, M Elezen, and literally none of the other male races fulfill what I'm looking for in a player character. Hyur Midlander is the closest I can manage to get to what I'm looking for, but even he doesn't quite get there. All I want is something just as graceful and elegant as the F Viera, while still looking mature and masculine while not coming across as really goofy looking with really bad animations. I really feel like that's not asking for much.

Same here, the existing male races don't have that graceful and traditionally elegant/handsome look, there's a distinct lack of it in our current roster of males. When you see the female Viera it's clear they look like female top models with bunny features, it's not unsurprising people expected male Viera to be in the same camp and then got rather disappointed when they got what can only be described as the polar opposite.

I like the Hrothgar and the idea behind their design, but I feel that having the female Viera and Male Hrothgar stand alone is sad, it's like having two pairs of socks that look great, but you can only pick between warming one foot at a time.
I really hope they consider working the other two races into their work schedule in the future, but I won't put my hopes up.

[zeylos]

I'm sure SE would love to risk the loss of numbers and money based on your personal feelings on the matter. I'm sure they don't have or hire people to do the math and study the trends. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they try to slow down the speed at which you can grind gear in a game that lives on a monthly sub.

And I find it soooo strange that you think "Just cut [insert Content I don't personally like] and that would free up resources for Viera Males!". Like ... do you think the people working on BLU are stopping the creation of a new race? How much overlap do you thing there is between people who work on player characters and the people who coded and designed the systems and inner workings of Eureka well reusing mobs from other parts of the game to fill the zones?

A race is the single most taxing, expensive cosmetic thing they can add. Because now not only do you have to redo everything that's been done for ever race IN the game but also have everything that CAN be done with a player character become even harder to do. Those dances and emotes the put on the Mogstation now cost more to make. Glam now cost more to make. Job skills now take longer to animate. What about other things these character modelers, designers and animators work on? Dngs can bring about new and exciting encounters using new rigs and models so it's safe to say they need these people to. That's sure to become harder.
This is why most MMOs with good character design don't make it a habit to add more character models that players can use.

"Hire more people" even if that's a path they could go (Yoshi seems to say that's not a solution) you're asking them to forever increase the number of people they pay for and screw with their system of churning out content for no reason or pay off.

It actually sickens me that people would want all players to suffer for them to have the option to be some race/ gender combo that most people don't care about.

This line of reasoning does not spark support in people and is very disappointing to read, I question the judgement of those who run on such a platform.

Ok so if it sickens you, you can then just leave this thread. We have all been very disrespectful yet you come here and treat everyone with disrespect and then you go and tell everyone that this thread is composed of 10< people who only whine and cry. I'd u don't want gender lock removal, then ok, you do you, but there is no need to be as disrespectful as you have been most of the time to me and other ppl on this thread. I will not be awnsering to you any longer and k think it's a shame since we could have had a very interesting conversation, but I do not want to have a conversation with someone who spends most of their time insulting me based on what I want for the game

[Lauront]

I don’t bother with Reivaxe because even some brick walls make more of an effort to engage the arguments put forward in good faith. The poster wilfully ignores eg mention of evaluating stuff on a cost/benefit basis and acts as if all content is on par and that we’re asking for popular content to be stripped - nope.

BLU is probably the most egregious example of wasted resources so far but I’ve been advocating a rationalisation of content ever since they said they’d have to sacrifice eg some gear output for the high res textures. Content which sees minimal use is by definition content most people are not concerned about. Where there these act as resource hogs, the game would be well served by re evaluating their necessity. A well designed new race will easily beat out poorly designed garbage like BLU. A race may take considerable effort but also have the uptake and durability to actually justify it - same with graphics updates more generally.

All I see from reivaxe is comments like ‘I’m sure that’ etc. Fine, then why is some content so bad that even the devs acknowledge it and simply drop it? They’ve been experimenting more, which is fine, except that SE does not reinvest enough at present for this to not cause more popular forms of content to suffer.

We’ll nonetheless hear the same silly nonsense from this person who refuses to engage any arguments here in good faith, that we want all players to suffer, when it’s exactly the opposite that we’re arguing. So please spare me the faux indignation.