1.20a tomorrow :D

[Firon]

i think the point your missing is the current battle is heavily tuned to being max level. It is really bad mid level, or early leveling if you want to call it that. You simply dont have the tools to do your job well early, you probably have 1 combo, and on certain jobs its a not that useful combo, you most likely do not have any of the moves that give you synergy, and you probably dont have all the cross class abilities that might prove useful, but even if you did, you can only equip like2 of them.

One of the reasons you think combat is great and makes sense is because you have everything 50, and you get to see a total package of how its all tuned.
This is one of teh reasons most games give you skills early and power them up as you go, because for the total picture of the job to make sense, you may need some skills earlier, even if they are weakened, like pug needs mp management abilities, blm needs convert etc.

Also having nothing you can do besides wait for teh beginning of teh fight for every melee class is a bad design, people like to initiate combat, possibly at an advantage, they need to abandon the do nothing until you build up power for 4/5 battle jobs (and the only one who can take initiative is archer, and it doesnt get barrage till like, what 34?), its boring, and even though once you get going its ok, its not ok early, and while invig is great, the only person who will have invigorate starting off is lancer.

The abilities and combat is poorly tuned for the ride up, and it needs more starting abilities even if they arent tp earning/based.

the system has some real strengths, and at 50 when you see the full picture of jobs, its generally pretty good, but why does the game actually start at cap? where is the fun before you get to cap? how fun will it be when they have jobs and you cant use bloodbath, invigorate, cure etc? (sure you could level them, but if you want to main monk, you are only really going to want to invest in whatever will actually be useful from level 30 onwards)

In all honesty i feel like the combat designs blindspot is being balanced for having all skills and levels already done.

That quote is so untrue, Also quoting the guy that has been piss poor about the battle system since the stamina system was removed is the wrong person to quote cause he has been hating all changes since then. The melee classes are fine low~mid lvl cause i levled my mrd 10~14 in less than 30 mins combos work fine for all low lvl classes. Even when solo you can still hit combo's to the side of the mob w/o stunning them.

[Murugan]

That quote is so untrue, Also quoting the guy that has been piss poor about the battle system since the stamina system was removed is the wrong person to quote cause he has been hating all changes since then. The melee classes are fine low~mid lvl cause i levled my mrd 10~14 in less than 30 mins combos work fine for all low lvl classes. Even when solo you can still hit combo's to the side of the mob w/o stunning them.

I think playing a melee class solo or tanking and using the directional combo attacks is the most fun I've had in game to date. Finally a chance to use SE's own animation lock against their mobs!

[Bahn]

That quote is so untrue, Also quoting the guy that has been piss poor about the battle system since the stamina system was removed is the wrong person to quote cause he has been hating all changes since then. The melee classes are fine low~mid lvl cause i levled my mrd 10~14 in less than 30 mins combos work fine for all low lvl classes. Even when solo you can still hit combo's to the side of the mob w/o stunning them.

An ad hominem attack doesn't invalidate his current opinion about the combo system.

I actually have the same opinion about the current system myself. The system at rank 50 works perfectly with my Gladiator, but it feels totally incomplete in the low-midlevel range with my other characters. Before the skill streamlining of 1.20, early access to "weaker" versions of the tier 2/3 stuff made me feel like I could get a taste of the complete package around level 20-30. Subsequent levels gave me access to really cool skills, but even before then the tier 1 skills were sufficient to let you get a chance at how the classes should play like.

With the new skill streamlining, now I'm leveling simply waiting for the next skill that I can use to complete this incomplete combo. It feels like a core component of my character is completely missing until I hit the necessary levels to get my combo finishers.

I have the same opinion as Rowyne about the current combat system. To me, the current combat system feels a little less interactive (unless I'm fighting something stupid hard that requires me to watch my HP). It definitely feels more streamlined with the combo mechanics dictating what you should do, but the positional requirements really screw me up because of Square's current client server architecture where the client fails to properly update the server often enough on positional changes.

The "additional" affects from hitting from the proper side should be bonuses you should still get, but it should not be a requirement to keep a combo going. If the client was properly updating the server on position changes, I would be for it, but I've had too many instances where on my screen I hit with a WS that requires a backstab, but the game tells me I hit from the left/right.

To anyone who wants to keep it civilized and add their two cents about the combo system, there's a couple great threads in the Battle Mechanics forum about this.

[Firon]

An ad hominem attack doesn't invalidate his current opinion about the combo system.

I actually have the same opinion about the current system myself. The system at rank 50 works perfectly with my Gladiator, but it feels totally incomplete in the low-midlevel range with my other characters. Before the skill streamlining of 1.20, early access to "weaker" versions of the tier 2/3 stuff made me feel like I could get a taste of the complete package around level 20-30. Subsequent levels gave me access to really cool skills, but even before then the tier 1 skills were sufficient to let you get a chance at how the classes should play like.

With the new skill streamlining, now I'm leveling simply waiting for the next skill that I can use to complete this incomplete combo. It feels like a core component of my character is completely missing until I hit the necessary levels to get my combo finishers.

I have the same opinion as Rowyne about the current combat system. To me, the current combat system feels a little less interactive (unless I'm fighting something stupid hard that requires me to watch my HP). It definitely feels more streamlined with the combo mechanics dictating what you should do, but the positional requirements really screw me up because of Square's current client server architecture where the client fails to properly update the server often enough on positional changes.

The "additional" affects from hitting from the proper side should be bonuses you should still get, but it should not be a requirement to keep a combo going. If the client was properly updating the server on position changes, I would be for it, but I've had too many instances where on my screen I hit with a WS that requires a backstab, but the game tells me I hit from the left/right.

To anyone who wants to keep it civilized and add their two cents about the combo system, there's a couple great threads in the Battle Mechanics forum about this.

So your saying you should be doing the same thing as a lvl 50 from the get go? It's like someone saying why only the higher level weapon skills look better. After all you said tho even @ lvl 30 All classes have 3 combo options to use, then at level 50 5 of them.

[Rowyne]

So your saying you should be doing the same thing as a lvl 50 from the get go? It's like someone saying why only the higher level weapon skills look better. After all you said tho even @ lvl 30 All classes have 3 combo options to use, then at level 50 5 of them.

Not to put words in someone else's mouth (and excuse me if I am), but what I think Bahn is trying to say is that combat should be fun and balanced at all level tiers. No, of course you shouldn't be getting level 50 spells and abilities at level one. But combat should be designed to feel fluid and come together throughout the entire level climb, not feel like something's missing.