Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Anyan]

I don't have time to read all posts right now but I'll try to later. This thread grows so fast! O.O
But I'd like to ask y'all something. Are there any other peeps like myself who really wants male Vieras but don't think we'll get them?

edit: And I mean never. Not now nor in the future.

[BillyKaplan]

But I'd like to ask y'all something. Are there any other peeps like myself who really wants male Vieras but don't think we'll get them?

It's possible. If they decide the investment isn't worth it despite unsubbing and mogshop hits. I don't doubt people will hop on the game for the new xpac, and the genders that were added (esp female Viera). Say the increase in players and purchases at the very least evens out with the people who leave or reduce investment in the game over it - they won't really have a reason to go with it, no, as they already explained they're stressed for resources and probably manpower. So if they can maintain their status quo, it might be good enough for them.
Question is, what the result of that equation would be.

As for the other ongoing debate, would be nice if we stopped tearing into each other and trampling each other to appease people with likely hostile intents who so far have shown no intention of changing their minds :^) (statement obviously general and there are exceptions) You might think you're "fixing your image" or what not but it's more fragmenting and divisive than anything.

[Veis_Alveare]

As for the other ongoing debate, would be nice if we stopped tearing into each other and trampling each other to appease people with likely hostile intents who so far have shown no intention of changing their minds :^) (statement obviously general and there are exceptions) You might think you're "fixing your image" or what not but it's more fragmenting and divisive than anything.

This part of your post reads vague, if I'm misunderstanding I apologize. I would hope I'm considered an exception at this point.

Either way if people are going to refine their arguments to be for the inclusion of male Viera but without the victimhood narrative that is anything but divisive; it literally yanks the rug out from under the "don't give the SJWs what they want" argument which (from what I've seen) is one of the two major arguments against the inclusion of male Viera at this point.

There is nothing wrong with fixing the image of the pro-male Viera camp, frankly it could do with some fixing if it's going to garner any further support.

Here is a quick sketch I did of what I envision a male viera to look like build wise. Please note the floppy ears!

He's cute!

[BillyKaplan]

"don't give the SJWs what they want"

The biggest problem is acknowledging that as a valid argument against their inclusion...
Other than that only thing I can think of that's problematic and recurring is wanting Feol-esque models. But I like to think that ship has sailed when they confirmed the two female Viera clans we'll be getting.

[Veis_Alveare]

The biggest problem is acknowledging that as a valid argument against their inclusion...
Other than that only thing I can think of that's problematic and recurring is wanting Feol-esque models. But I like to think that ship has sailed when they confirmed the two female Viera clans we'll be getting.

The validity of an argument doesn't necessarily impact it's effectiveness.

If as a group the people who want male Viera didn't behave in a way that opened them to this criticism there wouldn't be this argument. While it may not be a valid argument for not including male Viera it is most definitely a valid criticism of some of the people who want male Viera.

Separating the reasonable people who just want this included in the game from the people screeching about discrimination is a valid way of gaining more support, the only "problem" is people wishing to hang onto their false victimhood narrative.

By all means give us male Viera but not because the devs feel pressured or shamed but because it's a desire of their playerbase that they can deliver on. I don't see how anyone could miss the huge difference there.

I agree about the Feol models though, happy that we're getting all adult models and I see no reason that shouldn't continue into the males if they become visible/playable.

[BillyKaplan]

The validity of an argument doesn't necessarily impact it's effectiveness.

The question is what's the good of SE as a business yielding to that argument? Would anyone unsub if they did add male Viera and female Hroths?

If as a group the people who want male Viera didn't behave in a way that opened them to this criticism there wouldn't be this argument.

The problem with that is that it's a nice bully mentality to go hand in hand with your claimed "discrimination/victimhood narrative".

While it may not be a valid argument for not including male Viera it is most definitely a valid criticism of some of the people who want male Viera.

Ad hominem

By all means give us male Viera but not because the devs feel pressured or shamed but because it's a desire of their playerbase that they can deliver on. I don't see how anyone could miss the huge difference there.

Because it's not a difference. You're trying to lump the people who want male Viera and female Hroths added into a singular hive mind group that's vague and blank when everyone has their own reasons for wanting it. The base reason is wanting to see them in game, maybe even play them. Some of those want the missing genders because they want genderlocks gone. Some, because the genderlocks and a lot of the implications that come from this collection of decisions plays on their own real life issues in their escapist fantasies. And it's every last bit as valid as the other end of the spectrum where people want it for as simple a reason as eye candy.

[Veis_Alveare]

fake ad hom reeeeeeee.

An ad hominem would be me telling you that it seems like you can't read and talking to you is fairly similar to talking to a parrot who grew up around rabid SJWs.

That would be an ad hominem... you know, if I were to say it.

Blaming people for doing something worthy of criticism for the criticism they receive isn't an ad hom it's honesty.

[Nestama]

The biggest problem is acknowledging that as a valid argument against their inclusion...
Other than that only thing I can think of that's problematic and recurring is wanting Feol-esque models. But I like to think that ship has sailed when they confirmed the two female Viera clans we'll be getting.

I'm pretty sure you'd still be able to make a Feol Viera, anyway. The only thing they have going for them is a more Hyur-like face (Viera lore already claims they look similar to Hyur and Elezen, so that's one box ticked), blonde hair and shorter ears (you'll most likely get to adjust ear size). Anything else beyond that was just fan-canon.