Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Veis_Alveare]

i'd honestly just ignore them, they've dropped the facade of intellectual debate and just gone into full shitposting mode, dropping by every now and then to have a laugh or make strawmen posts like "You all believe this is sexist/All just want something to sexually fantasize over" to devalue posters on here while ignoring a lot of the initial waves of anti-male viera posts were incredibly toxic and frequently used slurs and homophobic rhetoric based off anyone against genderlocking being "SJW"s. Yet nobody arguing against them has ever brought it up or used it to devalue their arguments.

Also.



Found it.

I didn't see any homophobic slurs? Did I miss this because they got deleted? I'd be surprised if people actually went that far.

I think the people who pushed the narrative of "don't cave to the SJWs" were specifically focused on the part of the pro-male Viera camp who were calling SE sexist and homophobic for not including male Viera. I still agree with this narrative; people shouldn't fling words like sexist and homophobic around for something like this as all it does is desensitize people to them and devalue them as words.

Personally the thing that got me on board with the implementation of male Viera was seeing people push concept art and a general desire for adult-male looking male Viera as some less savory places on the internet had lead me to believe people wanted child-like models for them which I'm very against. This isn't homophobia or sexism, if anything it's... pedophiliaphobia? I don't know if that's a word but it's the place I was arguing from and still the place I would argue from if we got Viera that looked like kids.

I think closing yourselves off to people who don't like that (frankly very SJW) narrative of this somehow being sexism or homophobia is just dumb. You're losing potential supporters, not everyone is going to stick around like I did to have their minds changed and see that isn't what the majority of you are claiming they're going to see serious words being thrown around for no reason and treat it like every other time they see that happening; write it off as reactionary, regressive SJW bullcrap and troll/ignore/move on.

Tl;dr- disavow the discrimination/victimhood narrative and the kid-Viera people and a lot of these troll posts (or even genuine disagreement posts like many of mine) wouldn't exist.

[MrKimper]

I didn't see any homophobic slurs? Did I miss this because they got deleted? I'd be surprised if people actually went that far.

Yes they were deleted, there was someone I recall CptOhare going on a tirade about homosexual people being hunted in the past for a reason and being too cocky now or some nonsense to that effect. Also the sexism excuse is just wrong as well, MANY people here who support male viera have outright said they don't think it was sexism.

My personal opinion was that it was a poor choice and deliberately dubious to withhold this information before pre-orders were live, but again I don't think Yoshida is sexist or homophobic I've also personally stated I don't want child like viera, you can look at the "viera should be shorter than the females" argument people posted.

I think people shouldn't be asking for alphinauds body type because he's a literal 16 year old child and it's disturbing, that being said I think there's a difference between a short male and a literal child, and I don't think people who want male viera to be shorter than the females and less buff than miqo'te are advocating for a CHILDLIKE/teenagers build there are plenty of adults with builds like that, would I personally want male viera to look like that? no I've stated I'd want them to be tall and built like au ra with less pronounced hips and longer hair options, but I think it's wrong to say someone who wants a slimmer miqo'te are specifically pedophiles.

It's also wrong to label posters in this thread as SJWs when you'll find posts in BOTH threads(Female hrothgar and male viera) calling these people who claim that sexism or homophobia to be ridiculous. It's just not a good argument to label someone with and no one is crying victimhood as this is the first time I've even brought up the pure violent vitrol some people have used against implementing male viera because they've attached some political agenda to it. When it's just asking for customization options.

[Lauront]

Tl;dr- disavow the discrimination/victimhood narrative and the kid-Viera people

Agreed on that front.

[Melichoir]

I didn't see any homophobic slurs? Did I miss this because they got deleted? I'd be surprised if people actually went that far.

I think the people who pushed the narrative of "don't cave to the SJWs" were specifically focused on the part of the pro-male Viera camp who were calling SE sexist and homophobic for not including male Viera. I still agree with this narrative; people shouldn't fling words like sexist and homophobic around for something like this as all it does is desensitize people to them and devalue them as words.

Personally the thing that got me on board with the implementation of male Viera was seeing people push concept art and a general desire for adult-male looking male Viera as some less savory places on the internet had lead me to believe people wanted child-like models for them which I'm very against. This isn't homophobia or sexism, if anything it's... pedophiliaphobia? I don't know if that's a word but it's the place I was arguing from and still the place I would argue from if we got Viera that looked like kids.

I think closing yourselves off to people who don't like that (frankly very SJW) narrative of this somehow being sexism or homophobia is just dumb. You're losing potential supporters, not everyone is going to stick around like I did to have their minds changed and see that isn't what the majority of you are claiming they're going to see serious words being thrown around for no reason and treat it like every other time they see that happening; write it off as reactionary, regressive SJW bullcrap and troll/ignore/move on.

Tl;dr- disavow the discrimination/victimhood narrative and the kid-Viera people and a lot of these troll posts (or even genuine disagreement posts like many of mine) wouldn't exist.

I agree with most everythign except the 'kid-viera' aspect. Youre targeting people who are looking for a design aspect and then assigning a negative motive as a means to prevent it based on your personal feelings.

Like I said in an earlier post, almost any reason is pretty much a valid reason to want the opposite sex as its each their own - this includes male viera who arent sculpted Adonises, but are more cutesy and are a contrast to the amazonian female Viera. Your angle, from what Im reading, is "No, we cant have more cutesy male viera cause thats just a form of Paedophilia and thats wrong." (And for clarity, yeah Paedophilia is wrong, Im not arguing in favor of that, but rather that this is the insinuation youre placing on anyone who wants more younger/cutesy looking male viera.) Youre priming the argument by saying that the reason is flat out one way, when that may or may not be. At the end of the day, peoples personal reasons for wanting Male Vieras, or any aesthetic in any race, is not your business. If people do explain their reasoning, thats generally helpful and usually adds to the discussion, but its not necessary. It really is just as bad as calling SE sexist for not having male viera and female hrothgar. It's assigning malicious motives from the get go.

Heck, if you break down your position its "I only support male viera if they look a certain way that I approve." Youre not in support of male viera generally, you only support one vision you have of male viera. Rather than discuss that we should be getting male viera regardless of how they look and that we should be encouraged to argue the nuance of it and trying to explain the merits of what people are looking for. It's literally the sexist argument in reverse, or (as another analogy) people who dont want male Viera in any capacity cause of the eRP factor.

[Kelryth]

snip

I have no problem playing child characters in games. Most of squares games over the years have had child protagonists. Those that find this creepy in my honest opinion have dirty minds and should go see a shrink. They need to realize that not everybody who likes kids is a pedophile. Get over yourselves.



That said, I hope if we get male viera they include a youngish face like miqo has. Like a slightly taller frodo with bunny ears...LOL

[AnnaRosa]

I have no problem playing child characters in games. Most of squares games over the years have had child protagonists. Those that find this creepy in my honest opinion have dirty minds and should go see a shrink. They need to realize that not everybody who likes kids is a pedophile. Get over yourselves.



That said, I hope if we get male viera they include a youngish face like miqo has. Like a slightly taller frodo with bunny ears...LOL

Highly doubt that will happen the playable female viera are described in the game lore as mature adults would not make any sense to make the counterpart just as that but maybe you could work with the character editor the facial features like you can with the character muscular mass and height.

Where you can make your own Frodo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

[MrKimper]

They need to realize that not everybody who likes kids is a pedophile. Get over yourselves.

There's a difference between playing young link and sexualizing him as you play him, yes. However you may want to rephrase that because that statement is highly dubious and regardless I don't think childlike characters should be playable in an MMO, it's just not a good look. There's a difference between a TWINK and a CHILD/TEENAGER, Alphinaud is not a twink, he is a literal child, Frodo is a 33 year old hobbit played by Elijah wood who was 18 going on 19 if I recall when he took on the roll.

That being said, I think what shouldn't be associated with wanting children is wanting a body type that is closer in physique to the females.



by https://twitter.com/NHAAMAMIA/status...69473020289025 Nhaamamia (I recommend commissioning them by the way they do good work) For example if this was a male with a flat chest and broader shoulders would that suddenly make them a child? no, they look youthful regardless of gender but are an obvious adult. A lot of posters have claimed something which looks like this blatantly pedophilia and that's incorrect to me.

Liking children in the way of enjoying them as CHARACTERS would be a better phrase to use there as just uh, liking playing as children is kind of yikes.