Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Feidam]

What I'm saying is neither you nor I determine what is obstruction, the party does. As an individual, we have no right to block the will of the party.

The votekick is the democratic mechanism that ensures the party gets its way, and as long as that can be executed without a GM's explicit permission then that is the result.

Requiring a GM's explicit permission defeats the purpose of it being a democratic option in the first place, so that's not going to ever happen.

No we don’t. SE determines it. Their language is pretty clear there. Now harassment leaves a lot of wiggle room.

[van_arn]

No we don’t. SE determines it. Their language is pretty clear there. Now harassment leaves a lot of wiggle room.

Then the person performing at a sub-chocobo level is harassing the party, because obviously no person at that level is that incompetent.

I still don't comprehend why you're so dead-set against the flesh and blood spending their time with that sandbag being the authority here.

[IMG]

*cackle*

I appreciate how it's worded as pablum to soothe the feelings of people that got kicked, but goes right on to say it's not their problem if the party decides to handle things differently with a kick.

[Feidam]

Then the person performing at a sub-chocobo level is harassing the party, because obviously no person at that level is that incompetent.

I still don't comprehend why you're so dead-set against the group being the authority here.

Because as we have seen players behind a monitor will be vicious and petty if they think they can get away it. Also, one can look at real life and see that Majority Rule is often used to negative effect. We have guidelines as to what is appropiate use. I’m not against a group using vote if they are doing it within the spirit of the system and when people realize what content the are doing. All of your reasons are perfectly fine in extreme or savage groups especially if they are party finder groups. Also, party premades for dungeons use whatever rules you want. In those groups you set the rules. In Duty finder you sign up for random players and random content.

Edit. Keep in mind i’m Not talking about players than can’t meet dps checks in base dungeons, or tanks that pull slowly in harnessing manners.

[van_arn]

Because as we have seen players behind a monitor will be vicious and petty if they think they can get away it. Also, one can look at real life and see that Majority Rule is often used to negative effect. We have guidelines as to what is appropiate use. I’m not against a group using vote if they are doing it within the spirit of the system and we people realize what content the are doing. All of your reasons are perfectly fine in extreme or savage groups especially if they are party finder groups. In those groups you set the rules. In Duty finder you sign up for random players and random content.

Yes, and that's why voting exists. Because just because someone feels they're ready to run The Burn after clearing POTD that doesn't mean the people they're matched with will agree with their assessment.

Otherwise you're simply replacing terror of the majority with terror of the minority, and that just isn't going to fly when "game styles differ" can make a GM just click the close button and go back to reading twitter.

I'm not fond of terror of the majority, mind, I simply find it preferable in the edge cases where it does occur to terror of the minority. Especially in a cooperative game.

[Feidam]

Yes, and that's why voting exists. Because just because someone feels they're ready to run The Burn after clearing POTD that doesn't mean the people they're matched with will agree with their assessment.

Otherwise you're simply replacing terror of the majority with terror of the minority, and that just isn't going to fly when "game styles differ" can make a GM just click the close button and go back to reading twitter.

I'm not fond of terror of the majority, mind, I simply find it preferable in the edge cases where it does occur to terror of the minority. Especially in a cooperative game.

What you just described though has nothing to do with small pulls. It has to do with performing the base role functions which is an entirely different thing. In my experience letting most of the small pull tanks get comfortable tends to lead to the “norm”of larger pulls. This could ultimately leads to less terror of the minority as you put it. Of course there are always the obstinate, but a nice blacklist solves that problem unless they are truly obstructing. Then you can always vote kick and report them. As I’ve said before toxic is toxic. However, people in this thread want to kick summarily before that comfort can be reached and you can also see that their attitudes probably lead to some rather insulting comments.